Posts by Xander

You have to explain it somehow because there haven't been any Trilobites in a long long time . To me, the expirimenting god explanation is just silly, and the evolutionary explanation, in addition to fitting all of the observed facts, just makes sense.

Hey, I like this.

I think this is perhaps the most succint and SIMPLE (very important to certain crowds) argument I've seen.

Me likes.

16

The Best Way To Get To Know Someone...

by Funchback in

according to current jw teachings (and it has been this way for many years), the best way to get to know someone is to work with them in field service.. when you were an "active" jw, what did you think about that statement?

how do you feel about it now?.

personally, those words were uttered by someone from the platform recently.

Xander

The best way to get to know someone is to live with them

DING!

Yes, that IS the *best* way to get to know someone. Sadly, no fundie religion will EVER admit that.

16

Hallowweeeeeen!!!!!!!!!

by nativenyr23 in

jw
friends

hey guys!!!!

it's been a while since i've been able to check this site as my computer at home has been on the blink.

in any case, as i mentioned at previous apostofests, i'm thinking about having an aposto-halloween party!!!

Xander

which first began Dec 25 but has varied since because lunar-based

Ummm....because Hannukah doesn't involve decorating a tree, a single day of gift giving, and all the other trappings of a modern christmas (Yule log, mistletoe, etc.) whereas the pagan holidays did?

The word Easter may as easily be from the Anglo-Saxon word eastern (Christianity came from East of England) as from the goddess Eastre, the eggs as likely from the Jewish passover egg as from paganry, common sense saying early Christians more likely using eggs and rabbits to symbolize the hope for new life by resurrection than as vesiges of pagan fertility or sex rites!

Oh,and, of course, the timing on this one is just coincidental, too? Spring equinox anyone?

Here's a hint for free:

All equinoxes and solstices (4 per year) and the date directly between them (4 per year) had pagan holidays to celebrate. That's 8 total pagan holidays per year - and that has been true pretty much since the beginning of time (at least, the beginning of man identifying the need for gods).

They are:

YULE December 21st:
The celebration of the winter solstice, the shortest day of the year. It is the celebration rebirth of the Sun, which is the promise of spring and life even on this the darkest day. Therefore some consider this the new year. The burning of the log is to give the Sun strength. Mumming (plays) such as "St. George" is a Pagan survival , it represents the rebirth of the God. Wassailing or is also a Pagan custom. The Roman festival of the Solstice was Saturnalia, which lasted from December 17th to the 24th.Click here for more on Yule
IMBOLC, February 2: February is a purifactory month, bonfires are held now. In the Christian calendar this festival was converted to the Feast of the Purification of the Virgin (Mary). Candles for the following year were purified in the western church - therefore we get the name Candlemas.Click here for more on Imbolc
OSTARA, March 21:The celebration of the Vernal (Spring) Equinox. Day & Night are equal length. It is a time for planting and celebrating the first signs of fertility and rebirth. Symbols of Ostara like eggs, chicks, and rabbits have been adopted by Christians in their Easter holiday. The word, Easter is from the goddess Eostra, Ishtar or Astarte. Click here to learn more
BELTANE, May 1: May Day.Beltane celebrates the Marriage of the Goddess and the God,the goddess is thought to conceive the Divine Child at this time,to which she will give birth to at Yule. The maypole dance is symbolic of the union of the goddess and the god . Pagan Handfastings occur at this time. Also this is an excellent holiday to perform sex magick .Click here for more on Beltane
MIDSUMMER,June 21:
The Summer Solstice a celebration in honor of the Sun-God . Traditional Pagan activities of Midsummer is to leap across bonfires to promote fertility of animals and crops. Click here for more on Midsummer
LUGHNASADH,August 1:
Also known as Lamma, this is the first of the three Harvest festivals. The first fruits of the annual harvest are reaped, and the days grow shorter. Click here for more on Lammas
MABON September 21:
The Autumnal Equinox, is the second of the Harvest holidays. Mabon is a time to recognize what we have and to begin preparing for the coming winter.Click here for more on Mabon.
SAMHAIN, October 31:
Death, the third of the Harvest holidays, the ending of the cycle, death, but with the hope of rebirth and the New Year.The traditional time for the annual slaughter to ensure food throughout the winter months. Take this time to remember departed ones. In some traditions the end of the year . The separation between this physical world and the spiritworld is thin. Halloween customs are a part of this element of death, the thin line at this cycle and remembering the dead and the hopes of rebirth. On this night Magick is more powerful .click here for more on Samhain.

You'll notice the dates. Many of the major ones (the solstices and the equinoxes) have christian holidays in their place today.

Why?

Who knows - probably to get converts, though. Or, as fragmented as the early church was, it may have just been errors as local parishes continued celebrating festivals they always had while their ministers adopted a more christian explanation for them.

Edited by - Xander on 26 September 2002 17:41:18

16

Hallowweeeeeen!!!!!!!!!

by nativenyr23 in

jw
friends

hey guys!!!!

it's been a while since i've been able to check this site as my computer at home has been on the blink.

in any case, as i mentioned at previous apostofests, i'm thinking about having an aposto-halloween party!!!

Xander

Halloween came from All Hallows (Holy Ones/Saints) Evening when parents had children dress as saints to encourage them to be good

Oh, and of course, the early christians were the first to celebrate this Sabbat.

Indeed, the fact that the customs addopted by those christians are similar to the older, pagan, celebration of Samhain ON THAT SAME DAY are completely coincidental.

Sorry, hun, but you're quoting from a fundie reconstructionist who's trying to claim all holidays are christian.

They aren't.

The WT is actually correct about their origins.

72

CREATIONISM----F.Y.I

by nakedmvistar in

in the midst of the debates -- or wars -- concerning the issues of creation and evolution, there is a tendency to over-generalize.

both sides often refer to the opposing side with the broad term of either "evolutionist" or "creationist.

" and yet there exists within both sides a great deal of variety and even controversy.

Xander

No.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/paluxy/degrees.html

Quotes:

Thus, it appears that Baugh essentially granted himself a science degree from a branch of his own unaccredited Bible school.
Perhaps not surprisingly, Baugh's doctoral "dissertation" is largely a compilation of anti-evolutionary arguments on the origin of man, and includes an extensive section on missions that consists of literature by others which was photocopied and inserted.[25]

and

Last, there is no evidence that Baugh has even a undergraduate degree in any field of science.

Edited by - Xander on 26 September 2002 17:25:56

72

CREATIONISM----F.Y.I

by nakedmvistar in

in the midst of the debates -- or wars -- concerning the issues of creation and evolution, there is a tendency to over-generalize.

both sides often refer to the opposing side with the broad term of either "evolutionist" or "creationist.

" and yet there exists within both sides a great deal of variety and even controversy.

Xander

you can't even answer in your own words you just direct me to some website

Alright, fine. Evolution is heritable genetic change. Those are my own words. Help any?

However it's not at all certain that it is either.

!??!

YES IT IS.

We can study their genetic code - AND WATCH IT CHANGE OVER GENERATIONS. *That's* all evolution is.

the heart of my argument, the transitions

That's not the heart of the argument. Evolution is a very slow process - indeed, ALL organisms can be thought of as 'transitional' - so what are you specifically looking for as criteria?

I'll post from the rebuttal to the source of your definitions

Did you read the rebuttal to the rebuttal?

Further, you keep holding that mutation is key to evolution. It is not. Evolution is heritable change in genetic codes over time. That DOES INCLUDE "how breeders can breed selectively and how all natural variation happens". Surprise - THAT'S EVOLUTION.

72

CREATIONISM----F.Y.I

by nakedmvistar in

in the midst of the debates -- or wars -- concerning the issues of creation and evolution, there is a tendency to over-generalize.

both sides often refer to the opposing side with the broad term of either "evolutionist" or "creationist.

" and yet there exists within both sides a great deal of variety and even controversy.

Xander

*sigh*

Obviously too lazy to even read the section of the site I pleaded with you to read.

Copied from answering misconception #4:

First, we should clarify what "evolution" means. Like so many other words, it has more than one meaning. Its strict biological definition is "a change in allele frequencies over time." By that definition, evolution is an indisputable fact.

And, just for fun, here are a few more definitions:

Evolution: changes in the genetic composition of a population with the passage of time1.
Microevolution: the shifting of gene frequencies in a local population1.
Macroevolution: major transformations of organisms over geological time1.
Genetic Variation: the genetic difference between members of a population2.

Note that, of these, only #3 - macroevolution has not been OBSERVED FIRST HAND by humans! There is substantial evidence of it, however, and denying this is burying your head in the sand.

Edited by - Xander on 25 September 2002 15:23:47

91

A Mormon chimes in

by John Corrill in

jw
friends

john corrill here from the ex-mormon board.

i've found your forum interesting.

mormons and ex-mormons struggle with many of the same things jw's do.

Xander

And we don't believe in 7 heavens, but only 3 levels, same as in the Bible.

Ehhhh...say what? Whose bible?

To that end let me do my own chiming in here.

To wit, here are the issues with Mormonism from that fellows site:

You will be expected to give up the use of alcohol, tobacco, coffee, and tea.
You will be expected to fulfill any work assignment given to you.
You will be expected to donate at least ten percent of your income to the church as tithing. Other donations will be expected as the need arises. You will never see an accounting of how this money is spent, or how much the church receives, or anything at all about its financial condition; the church keeps its finances secret, even from its members.
You will be continually reminded that to enter the highest degree of heaven (the "Celestial Kingdom"), you will have to go through the endowment ceremony in the temple and have your marriage to your Mormon spouse "sealed." (If your spouse is not Mormon, you cannot enter the highest degree of heaven.)
You will be expected to be unquestioningly obedient to church authorities in whatever they might tell you to do. "Follow the Brethren" is the slogan, and it means to follow without doubt or question
You will be able to "vote" on those who have been called to positions of authority over you, but the voting will be by the show of hands in a public meeting. Only one candidate for each office will be voted on (the one "called by God"). The voting is therefore almost always unanimous in favor of the candidate.
You will be urged not to read any material which is "not faith-promoting,"
You will be advised not to associate with "apostates," that is, former Mormons. (You will be asked in your "worthiness" interview about this.)
If you are unmarried, you will be encouraged to marry a good Mormon as soon as possible. When you do marry, in a wedding ceremony in the temple, your non-Mormon family members and friends will not be allowed to attend the ceremony, because only "worthy" Mormons are allowed to enter the temple.
If you are homosexual, you will be pressured to abandon this "evil" aspect of your nature. If you do not, you will probably not be fully accepted by other church members. If you do not remain celibate, you may be excommunicated.
If you are a male over 12 years of age and "worthy" (that is, if you are obedient, attend meetings, do not masturbate NOTES, etc.), you will be ordained to one of the levels of priesthood, and, if you continue to be faithful and obedient, you will gradually advance through the priesthood ranks. If you are female, you will receive the benefits of priesthood authority only indirectly, through your Mormon father or your Mormon husband. The role of the Mormon woman is to be a wife and mother and to obey and honor her priest husband (or father).
If you prove yourself to be faithful, hard working and obedient, you will eventually be considered worthy to "receive your endowment" in a Mormon temple. You will not be told in advance exactly what to expect in this lengthy ceremony, except that the details of the ritual are secret (Mormons prefer to say they are just "sacred," but they treat them as though they are secret). As part of that ceremony you will be required to swear a number of oaths, the penalty for violation of which is no longer stated but until 1990 was death by various bloody methods, such as having your throat slit from ear to ear.

Each of these points are very irritating, and several are inexcusable. (No Guinness?!?! Pfah! Nice talking to ya....)

So....according to you...how many of these are true. (Careful now, there are sources for these comments...)

72

CREATIONISM----F.Y.I

by nakedmvistar in

in the midst of the debates -- or wars -- concerning the issues of creation and evolution, there is a tendency to over-generalize.

both sides often refer to the opposing side with the broad term of either "evolutionist" or "creationist.

" and yet there exists within both sides a great deal of variety and even controversy.

Xander

I would have to show some cars(at least one) that was part one model and part another model

You demonstrate an astonishing lack of knowledge of evolutionary theory.

Evolution is there only because it adherents cannot accept the possibilty that there might be a God.

As has been noted before, that's simply wrong.

Evolution is fact - deal with it.

That has nothing at all to do with if their is a god or gods or not. Or, if there are, if they created everything or not. Evolution doesn't address any of those issues - because it is not concerned with them.

The theory of evolution does not explain how life, the universe, and everything started - it just explains how it is changing.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Free advice, if you are actually interested in an educated debate instead of spewing forth other people's words and thoughts instead of developing any of your own:

Visit this site: http://www.talkorigins.org/

It is a great source of information.

If you're too lazy to read the whole thing, PLEASE AT LEAST READ THIS PAGE:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-misconceptions.html

It details the FIVE MAJOR MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT EVOLUTION. Each of these misconceptions you appear to show evidence of holding true.

Edited by - Xander on 25 September 2002 12:10:28