in particular the belief that the soul does die at death, (its not eternally tormented) belief in a paradise hope and other similar doctrines of the wts.. i'm curious as to just how unique the wts is.
they claim to be the only ones with their particular set of beliefs but its something that i never really researched all the years that i've been a jw.
The 'Bible Students' still exist - a group that broke off from the now-JWs when Russel died.
I understand their beliefs are very similar - they don't have the 'modern' changes, though, I think - ban on blood transfusions, use of stake instead of cross, etc.
Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana
.. http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=288592.
interesting article about what happened in jenin
Xander, the biggest problem with the scenario you've drawn is that you assume the Palestinians ever had a government in place.
The presence of the existing government in my example is incidental - the point is that the Israelites have no claim to the land other than their religious teachings (which tell us, btw, that they never had a claim to the land before, either, but killed and enslaved the previous inhabitants of it to take it).
Giving someone a stretch of land that displaces current residents (no matter how many, no matter if self-governed or not) based solely on their religious teachings that 'god gave them this land' and that they had invaded and occupied it once before, is NOT something the UN should have done.
Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana
saudi crown prince abdullah delivered a sobering message to president bush on his visit to america this thursday about the dangers of it's continued pro-israeli policies.
while agreeing that the issues are complex and problematic, prince abdullah issued a strong warning to the united states.. "please dear god in the heavens above, do not make us oppose you.".
although afterwards bush preferred to speak of the meeting favourably with reporters, describing the talks as "pretty damned ok," abdullah spoke of clear dissension on matters of american policy.
As an example:
U.S. Drops Cats Into BelgiumWashington, D.C. (SatireWire.com)
— Countering accusations from liberals and conservatives alike that U.S. policy in the Middle East has become "confused and incoherent," the Bush administration today announced that it has in fact parachuted 225,000 cats into Belgium.Said White House spokesman Ari Fleischer: "The U.S. continues to support the peace process between the Palestinians and the Israelis, and that is why we have been dropping cats into Belgium, and will continue dropping cats into Belgium, until all of Brussels is purring under a two-foot-deep blanket of cats."
Asked by one reporter what the operation had to do with halting violence in the West Bank and Gaza, a visibly irritated Fleischer held up a map of the region and a six-month-old tabby.
"Israel. Palestine. Cats," he said. "Belgium."
Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana
saudi crown prince abdullah delivered a sobering message to president bush on his visit to america this thursday about the dangers of it's continued pro-israeli policies.
while agreeing that the issues are complex and problematic, prince abdullah issued a strong warning to the united states.. "please dear god in the heavens above, do not make us oppose you.".
although afterwards bush preferred to speak of the meeting favourably with reporters, describing the talks as "pretty damned ok," abdullah spoke of clear dissension on matters of american policy.
Is that original?
If so, it's really quite good. It reads a lot like a satirewire piece.
Vehry nahce...
Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana
been wondering about this lately.... what proof (outside the bible, of course) do we have for the "historical jesus"?.
in my earlier days (post jw to "born again christian") i remember reading that the one thing that differentiates christianity vs. "all the others" was that we had secular historical proof that there was a man that was called jesus, who died on a cross and was resurrected.
now i am wondering just what that proof is/was?
I find it hard to believe that some people would believe that a religion with over one billion adherents and continues 2000 years after it's inception was started by a non-existant person.
Can this logic even be reasoned with? I mean, if I started a cult and gained enough followers to start torturing and executing people who would not join me, and centuries later my followers, who've continued my practices up until almost the present, now cover the earth....would that mean I was right to begin with?
Before you brag of christianity's numbers, I think you'd better do some long, hard looking at how it GOT most of those numbers. Might also explain why fewer and fewer people claim to be christian these days. You can't burn someone at the stake for disagreeing with your religion anymore in most of the world.
an abiding FAITH in Jesus as The Messiah
Ummm...James 2:26? Talk about hella double standard! For Jesus followers, if they have faith, but don't prove their belief, they are as good as dead. However, Jesus expects everyone to have faith in his return without HIM having to prove anything.
Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana
the wts teaches to avoid the bad association of people who used to be jw but left the organization.
r&f are instructed even not to read their material.. in connection with the exhibitions shown in europe about the jw persecution in hitler germany, johannes wrobel, head of the watchtower history archives at the german branch office, in a speech quoted well-known apostate hans-jurgen twisselmann on his opinion on the stand firm-video.
twisselmann wrote several books on jw and runs the website http://www.bruderdienst.de.
Dan - you read the watchtower quotes leading up to WWII?
Check out: http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com/ for some interesting insight.
They didn't oppose Hitler AT ALL until Hitler started rounding them up.
Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana
been wondering about this lately.... what proof (outside the bible, of course) do we have for the "historical jesus"?.
in my earlier days (post jw to "born again christian") i remember reading that the one thing that differentiates christianity vs. "all the others" was that we had secular historical proof that there was a man that was called jesus, who died on a cross and was resurrected.
now i am wondering just what that proof is/was?
I think that's my biggest problem with the 'historical' evidence christians come up with. In several cases, it is very, VERY obviously tampered with.
And, even if it wasn't, they still aren't contemporary accounts. Josephus made his writings decades after 'Jesus' had supposedly come and gone. His records are based on, at best, second hand tales.
Again, I find it hard to believe someone who raised the dead, started a religious movement, performed miracle after miracle after miracle such that pretty much every Jew in Jerusalem wanted him dead, managed to completely not be mentioned in contemporary accounts.
Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana
.. http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=288592.
interesting article about what happened in jenin
I don't understand why people have such a hard time understanding the Palestinians.
Many of us are in the US, no? Now, imagine...the UN hears a plea from Native Americans to get their land back. The UN decides 'sure, that sounds like fun', and take the entire US west of the Mississippi and makes it 'Indian Territory'. The Indians there then proceed to take over the land and impose their religion on all. Cananda and Mexico get worried, and invades the now Indian Western US. The Indians push them back, and advance into the Eastern US and take over all the states up to the Appalachians.
Now, do you think I, as a newly overrun Ohioan am going to sit here and take that?
Is the Palestinian position REALLY that hard to understand?
That said, once all the above actions are taken (or, in reality, the actions the UN took in 1948), what can you do to fix the problem? It's just one of those things that, once done, is irreperable. No good will come of it ever - that region will NEVER settle down.
(And I'll never understand the Israeli position - by their own religious texts, they admit they weren't the inhabitants of that land originally! Their entire justification for living there is 'god gave us this land'. The arabs at least have the partially arguable position of 'we were here first'.)
Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana
greetings from the ``here we go again'' department.
while worldlings have only the song of the robins and the bloom of the daffodils and crocuses as harbingers of spring, jehovah's people and readers of their literature can always count on two more: the annual ``don't partake!
'' article in the watchtower, and the yearly exhortation to ``make nice at the summer's assemblies'' in the km.. in the case of the latter, the tone and content of the annual scolding is unbelievably demeaning to any responsible adult... being told to dress nice (suits and ties only, please, for the men and deresses only -- not too short ladies) not to abuse complimentary breakfasts, pool privileges and generally avoid rowdiness at the hotels where they stay-- all laced with clearly fabricated -- not to mention unattributed-- quotes from ``worldly observers amazed by our fine conduct.''.
I guess the appropriate warning should be:
"Watch your purses, because many attending are not JWs. Watch your kids VERY CLOSELY, because MOST attending ARE JWs, and we all know what percentage are pedophiles..."
Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana
greetings from the ``here we go again'' department.
while worldlings have only the song of the robins and the bloom of the daffodils and crocuses as harbingers of spring, jehovah's people and readers of their literature can always count on two more: the annual ``don't partake!
'' article in the watchtower, and the yearly exhortation to ``make nice at the summer's assemblies'' in the km.. in the case of the latter, the tone and content of the annual scolding is unbelievably demeaning to any responsible adult... being told to dress nice (suits and ties only, please, for the men and deresses only -- not too short ladies) not to abuse complimentary breakfasts, pool privileges and generally avoid rowdiness at the hotels where they stay-- all laced with clearly fabricated -- not to mention unattributed-- quotes from ``worldly observers amazed by our fine conduct.''.
WHOAH - #1, #2, and #3 are new to me! Granted, it's been at least 2 years since I've seen one of these - but I KNOW #1 wasn't on there before.
There WAS a similar comment re: seating at the convention, but I can't believe they would seriously put that in a KM. Reserve more rooms than you plan to use? WTF? Who DOES that???
Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana
