hey all,.
for those interested in a better version of the datelinenbc video, just go to the same web-address as before:.
http://12.239.160.163/elsewhere/datelinenbcmay28_2002.htm.
Well, *I'm* getting a 'The page cannot be displayed' error.
Did anyone else just click on the link?
(EDIT: In fact, although it obviously doesn't necessarily mean anything, I can't even ping that IP address in the URL)
Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana
i don't know if anyone has posted on this already but there is a new press release at http://www.jw-media.org/releases/default.htm?content=bg_molestation.htm that defines the current jw policy and i believe it has taken a step in the right direction!.
although they have not literally changed it to require reporting to the authorities in all states, they have finally put into print the following: "additionally, the victim may wish to report the matter to the authorities, and it is his or her absolute right to do so.".
i am glad to see, straight from the wt, acknowledgement that the adults involved have every right to go to the police.
You compare this to the blood issue, but it is completely different. On blood, the elders and HLC ACTIVELY discourage witnesses from using blood, and it is a common belief among JW's to not take blood.
No, it is EXACTLY the same.
Yes, the elders actively discourage you from taking blood. Yes, you will be kicked out if you do. Yes, it is common belief among the JWs.
However, care to examine what the watchtower's literature actually says in print? It sounds suspiciously like what they say in print above. "MAY be required", "MAY wish to", etc. When we all know what EFFECTIVELY the restriction is.
What I want them to say is "YOU MUST REPORT EVERY INCIDENT" or, perhaps, "WE REALIZE THE ELDERS ARE NOT QUALIFIED TO HANDLE CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS, AND REQUIRE THEM TO ALWAYS REPORT THIS TO THE POLICE".
Child abuse should never, ever, under ANY circumstances, EVER be handled 'internally'. Or rely on the victim to speak up.
That's why I see this as a step backward. It's simply a pretty PR statement that changes no policy (hell, they even bother to mention the 2-witness requirement in it), and how many, like you seem to be, are going to drop the struggle now, or let up, because they put on the face of making a concession?
Best case scenario (to us anyway), only their own flock will be misled for a while about the statement. I suspect, though, they put this in writing to placate other possible news sources from picking up the Dateline story.
Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana
i don't know if anyone has posted on this already but there is a new press release at http://www.jw-media.org/releases/default.htm?content=bg_molestation.htm that defines the current jw policy and i believe it has taken a step in the right direction!.
although they have not literally changed it to require reporting to the authorities in all states, they have finally put into print the following: "additionally, the victim may wish to report the matter to the authorities, and it is his or her absolute right to do so.".
i am glad to see, straight from the wt, acknowledgement that the adults involved have every right to go to the police.
The more I think about it, the more I realize that even in the absolute best case, this response is utter trash.
Read closely.
the victim may wish to report the matter to the authorities, and it is his or her absolute right to do so.
See how they dodge the bullet? The put the burden back on the victim. How many 6 year old molestation victims go to the police themselves? Let's assume it was their parents who molested them. They need help, who do they go to? The police - strangers? Or the elders?
It's well documented that almost ALL molestation cases are by people who are trusted by the victim. How high are the odds, you think, that a molested little kid would report the incident to the police? They will report it to the elders who - even under the society's "new and improved" policy, still don't have to report it to the police.
This is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. And the argument "well it's the states' responsibility to require it" is just such filthy trash, I can't imagine the ulcerous mouth that spills it forth.
If I see someone activate a countdown on a atomic bomb at the peak of the Empire State Building, should I not report it because I'm 'not required to'? And, when New York City is flattened, is it the state's fault for not providing me with an itemized list of common sense things that I should report, and those I don't need to report?
How stupid are these people? I mean, my god, that's just the bottom of the barrel idiocy.
Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana
anyone fancy a break from all this dateline and you knows world war 3?.
what about gaming?
who's into unreal and lan gaming?
I understand Dark Age of Camelot uses the graphics engine a generation back from Morrowind (MW uses 'NetImmerse4' and DAoC uses 'NetImmerse3').
Obviously, that has nothing to do with gameplay, but I imagine things like level or zone loading times and such will be similar as a result.
Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana
i don't know if anyone has posted on this already but there is a new press release at http://www.jw-media.org/releases/default.htm?content=bg_molestation.htm that defines the current jw policy and i believe it has taken a step in the right direction!.
although they have not literally changed it to require reporting to the authorities in all states, they have finally put into print the following: "additionally, the victim may wish to report the matter to the authorities, and it is his or her absolute right to do so.".
i am glad to see, straight from the wt, acknowledgement that the adults involved have every right to go to the police.
it is their ABSOLUTE RIGHT to do so.
You are reading too much into this. This has always been their policy. This is the standard WTBTS cop-out for when they don't want to take the blame for something.
Just ask a JW whose decision it was to let their loved one die because they needed a blood transfusion? Yeah, sure, they have 'the absolute right' to get one. What happens if they do, though? Every JW knows this.
I take this statement as an enormous LEAP in the wrong direction. They are putting the 'reporting pedophiles' issue in the same pile as voting and blood. You'd better off be dead than doing it, but if someone asks, we sure didn't tell you that. In fact, we aren't saying you can't do it at all. But, we will make it clear you will die at Armegeddon if you do
(EDIT: I'd be amazed if an actual change in behavior happened in the local congregations. As proof, I offer this test. As investigated by Dateline, to date, the WTBTS has reported 2 sexual offenders to the authorities, both worldly. Let's see if that numbers goes up any now. I'm quite confident it won't.)
Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana
anyone fancy a break from all this dateline and you knows world war 3?.
what about gaming?
who's into unreal and lan gaming?
Tribes 2 for me online. Played some Unreal, not a big fan. Too hectic - no strategy - and ruled by people with low pings. Bad for us modem guys.
Anyone play Morrowind yet? OMG, that game is awesome. MUST HAVE if you have a GF3 or GF4 (or Radeon 8500) for the graphics show-off capability alone. Gameplay kicks, too. Completely, 100%, totally open. Single-player only, though, which kept me from buying it for a long time. Glad I did, though.
It's cool because the game runs off of 1 CD - the other CD they ship with it is the full development kit that was used to create the 'world'. Plus, mods are easily stored as 'plug-ins'. Game's only been out a month or so and the modding community has gone nuts with it.
Deus Ex is also very cool single player.
Mostly, I do flight sims, though. Falcon 4.0 (sp2 mod) and Jane's F/A-18 (tsh mod) along with Il-2 when I feel like a WW2 flight sim.
Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana
a question for all to consider is: if pakistan and india go nuclear, as seems to becoming more likely by the day, how long will civilization be able to stay intact without completely unraveling, and during that interval will ridiculers be able to maintain the delusion that nothing out of the ordinary is happening in the world?
/ you know.
> http://www.msnbc.com/news/753586.asp?pne=msn&cp1=1
the only reason governments would advise their nationals to leave the country is the implied threat of a nuclear catastrophe.
YouKnow must have slept through history class.
Foreign nationals are ALWAYS instructed to leave a country that is preparing for war, conventional or otherwise. Why? Well, what happens if the capital falls to the enemy's advancing army?
I'd also point out that the several times in our countries history when nuclear war did seem inevitabl (Cuban Missile crisis, for example), no foreign nationals were asked to leave.
Think, man, think.
Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana
a question for all to consider is: if pakistan and india go nuclear, as seems to becoming more likely by the day, how long will civilization be able to stay intact without completely unraveling, and during that interval will ridiculers be able to maintain the delusion that nothing out of the ordinary is happening in the world?
/ you know.
> http://www.msnbc.com/news/753586.asp?pne=msn&cp1=1
Here, let me draw you a picture:
(edit to fix link)
The 'red' is where the actual fallout went. The 'yellow' shows where at least minimal increases in radioactivity could be measured (IE., where the QUITE INVISIBLE 'radioactive cloud' went).
As you can see, even minimal increases in radioactivity from Chernobyl went NOWHERE NEAR OKLAHOMA, sorry.
Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana
...do you want an end to the entire organization of jehovah's witnesses?.
i'm guessing there is so much money involved, we couldn't hope to see an end to them, but that's what needs to happen imho.
after all, jim and tammy faye bakker had lots of money associated with their church, and a theme park complete with hotels to boot and they're all gone.
and all other teachings that are destroying people's lives.
Like mandatory preaching?
That the org is the solution to all of life's problems, and just talking to an elder will help your depression (or it's your own damn fault for not being spiritual enough)?
That the WTBTS is the sole channel to god, and everyone else in the world will be destroyed, so it doesn't REALLY matter what they think of you? (They're birdseed, anyway!)
That having ANYTHING to do with the present system of things means you're marked for destruction? (IE., no voting, volunteering, etc.)
What's left, then?
I think Joseph had it right above. Once you take out all the details that make them 'wrong', there is nothing left.
Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana
what do you get when you put a bunch of computer literate star trek fans together on a forum?
mindless propoganda with an enterprise slant, that's what!
to the person (forgotten you nick, sorry) who showed me a link to this site, shot a lot!
Scan please
Never in print, unfortunately. There was an Awake! once that was on the topic, though. I don't think they came right out and forbid SciFi, but they indicated VERY STRONGLY that SciFi was a waste of time, as it tended to promote unscriptural teachings like evolution and extraterrestrial life and that mankind had a hope for the future that didn't rely on god.
Certain, the COs and DOs when visiting local congregations specifically forbade Star Trek and the like. Specifically mentioned 'Star Wars' several times, too. Not just the Sci-Fi lean, but 'why would you want to partake of entertainment that emphasizes 'wars' and spiritism?'. He went on to give some ridiculously out of context scenes from the movie - it was hopelessly obvious he had never seen any of them... [8>]
Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana
