Prisca I agree with you 100%. Boy, that's a shock.
Xandit
JoinedPosts by Xandit
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22
Reams and Reams of Information
by Prisca inthis post is primarily for those folk on this board, who post copious quantities of jw info on this board.. .
i can understand your wanting to help present jws and those looking for info on the organisation, but this is not the place for posting reams and reams of info.
most of us here know already this stuff.
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Good and Evil
by reigninhell ingood and evil.
two basic polarities.
would someone care to please define them, and the difference between them?.
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Xandit
expatbrit that's the most cogent thing that's been posted in days.
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Utah Court - Abuse Case
by Xandit injustices rule in favor of church .
1st amendment protects clergy from being sued .
by jennifer toomer-cook.
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Xandit
Justices rule in favor of church
1st Amendment protects clergy from being sued
By Jennifer Toomer-Cook
< http://deseretnews.com/dn/staff/card/1,1228,151,00.html>
Deseret News staff writerThe First Amendment protects an LDS Church bishop from being sued for
malpractice in counseling church members, the Utah Supreme Court ruled
Friday. The ruling is expected to shield Utah clergy, whose ranks include some 460 stake presidents and 3,600 ward bishops in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints alone.But it's unclear whether the ruling would affect a separate Utah law that requires bishops, rabbis, priests and pastors to notify police of child abuse, so long as the information doesn't come from the perpetrator. "I don't see this decision as adding or subtracting to the law of mandatory reporting," said attorney Oscar W. McConkie, a First Amendment expert and former Utah senator who introduced the state's first mandatory reporting law. "(The court's ruling) is not new law. In a country where you have freedom of religion, the state and none of its agencies . . . can dictate to a church and tell the church what standards the state would impose for clerics."
But the attorney who took on the church in the lawsuit disagrees. "I think given that ruling, it's very likely that if the reporting statute would be tested, the court would almost be forced to find it unconstitutional," attorney Edward R. Montgomery. "I think the court has sent a very clear message that no governmental regulations can be placed on the church. I think it is extremely chilling. People who have suffered abuse, like my client has at the hands of the church, now have virtually no recourse."
The LDS Church declined to go into the ruling's ramifications. But a
spokesman did say the church was satisfied by the court's action.
"The decision preserves religious liberty and freedom for all and confirms that lawsuits like these have no merit," LDS Church spokesman Dale Bills said. "We regret that Lynette Earl Franco and her family are unhappy with the church and hope that they can find peace." Though it wasn't part of the case, Utah's mandatory reporting law has shone in the spotlight in the past year. Three LDS bishops have faced charges, because they didn't report their knowledge of child sex abuse cases. Charges were dropped or agreements were reached with prosecutors in all three cases. Those cases raised questions about the statute. Some clerics maintain it hinders their ability to keep sacred communications confidential; others believe it protects victims from their abusers. Friday's Supreme Court
ruling also could invite further scrutiny of the law.The ruling pertained to an appeal filed by Lynette Earl Franco. Franco sued the LDS Church and her former bishop, Dennis Casaday, and stake president, David Christensen. When Franco was 7, she says she was abused by a 14-year-old boy and fellow member of her LDS Church ward. She says the abuse was so severe she repressed the memory until 1992, when she was 14 years old. At that time, she and her parents sought spiritual counseling from Casaday and Christensen, who advised her "to forgive, forget and seek Atonement," she said. She also asked to be referred to a licensed mental health professional. But she was referred to an unlicensed Bountiful counselor, who also urged her to forget the incidents instead of calling police, she said. Another counselor advised her otherwise, however. And once police were notified, Franco says her ward ostracized her. She since has
left the church.Franco sued, alleging misdeeds including clerical malpractice, negligence, intentional infliction of emotional distress and fraud.
But the Supreme Court upheld a lower court ruling in favor of the LDS
Church, in part because Franco's lawyers didn't show intent or meet the stringent legal criteria for a successful case. The clerical malpractice claim also was rejected, in step with rulings across the country. "Claims against clerics that require the courts to review and interpret church law, policies, or practices . . . are barred by the First Amendment under the entanglement doctrine," associate Chief Justice Leonard H. Russon wrote. Such interpretations "would embroil the courts in establishing training, skill, a religious professions widely varying beliefs. This is as impossible as it is unconstitutional." Montgomery said his client is seriously considering an appeal. He believes the court boiled the case down
to bad advice when it really was about "protecting the perpetrator" instead of the victim. -
Utah Court - Abuse article
by Xandit insorry bout that.
it double posted on me.. edited by - xandit on 12 march 2001 13:40:14
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Xandit
Sorry bout that. It double posted on me.
Edited by - Xandit on 12 March 2001 13:40:14
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HOW IT OFTEN HAPPENS PT. 3
by Dogpatch infrom the sexual abuse guest log:.
http://www.exjws.net/sexabuse/abuseguestlog.htm.
date: .
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Xandit
good stuff waiting. Unfortunately a reasonable, realistic approach is not appreciated by many. I think it's particularly commendable given your personal experience.
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They SLAUGHTER KIDS in JWdom, don't they, Mom?
by Focus inhere the prime sources of data are watchtower publications.. the data.
fact one (from watchtower magazine 15 october, 1993 p32).
doctor x, sympathetic to the jehovah's witnesses, stated that to forego blood transfusions increases the mortality rate for a standard operating procedure from c0.5% to c1.5% (in the advanced world).. fact two (from awake!
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Xandit
Sassenach you are quite correct, using the Memorial attendance as a base number is ludicrous. Publishers are about as close as you can get, maybe add 5% for children too young to publish. I just never got to that part of his lengthy discouse because it fell at the first hurdle.
Everything I've seen and heard indicates that mortality and morbidity rates for JWs undergoing surgery are no different than the general population. The only difference is that Witnesses are released from the hospital 24 hours earlier on the average (which makes them very attractive to insurance companies and HMOs). Those numbers don't come from Witnesses but have been presented at medical conferences by Doctors that have been associated with transfusionless medical treatment.
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"The Note"
by AuSet inat the 1994 district convention in bismark, north dakota, (could possibly have been 93) my sister wrote a note to her friend and tossed it in the garbage.
the note contained a discussion about going to boy's hotel rooms after the sessions ended, and other troublesome activities, including lying to the parents about what my sister and her friend were doing.. presumably, an attendant found this note in the garbage and turned it into the elders.
on the last talk of the last day of the convention, the note was read out loud to the entire audience, along with the warning that "whoever you are, we will find you.
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Xandit
Sassenach I've always had a tendency to make rude gestures in the face of authority and it almost overcame me on the stage at the assembly )Just a momentary impulse.
mommy I may be many things but I am not common.
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Any JW's take issue with R. Franz' writings?
by TR injust wondering if there is anything in r. franz' books that jw's might disagree with, assuming you feel free enough to read them.
let's talk.. tr.
edited by - tr on 8 march 2001 2:2:42
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Xandit
I though Franz' books were pretty good. A little too much hand wringing at the end of Crisis for my taste. The "I just don't understand why you're doing this" business seemed a little put on but other than that I found it to be good stuff. I did form the impression that Franz was a rather weak character.
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They SLAUGHTER KIDS in JWdom, don't they, Mom?
by Focus inhere the prime sources of data are watchtower publications.. the data.
fact one (from watchtower magazine 15 october, 1993 p32).
doctor x, sympathetic to the jehovah's witnesses, stated that to forego blood transfusions increases the mortality rate for a standard operating procedure from c0.5% to c1.5% (in the advanced world).. fact two (from awake!
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Xandit
Focus your verbosity in no way obviates the fact that you are misrepresenting, that you are a willful liar.
I notice you didn't produce the second quote.
6 of 9 you may be credulous because you were raised as a Witness but that's your personal problem. You want to believe Focus rubbish go ahead, your association with a blind guide is clearly approriate.
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"The Note"
by AuSet inat the 1994 district convention in bismark, north dakota, (could possibly have been 93) my sister wrote a note to her friend and tossed it in the garbage.
the note contained a discussion about going to boy's hotel rooms after the sessions ended, and other troublesome activities, including lying to the parents about what my sister and her friend were doing.. presumably, an attendant found this note in the garbage and turned it into the elders.
on the last talk of the last day of the convention, the note was read out loud to the entire audience, along with the warning that "whoever you are, we will find you.
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Xandit
mommy where did that happen, and when? That's fascinating, once I almost kicked over the traces myself that way.