Posts by XJWBill

62

The Natural Law fallacy and Homosexuality

by JanH in

jw
friends

there is a fallacy of logic that is so common that few people realize that it is, indeed, a fallacy of logic: the fallacy by appeal to nature.. one argument against homosexuality goes something like this:.

the natural use of the reproductive organs is obviously to make children.

using these organs in a way that cannot produce children is unnatural and thus ethically wrong.. .

XJWBill

Doug, I appreciate your more tolerant view of homosexuality now that you've left the WT. However, I don't think you really mean what you're saying in your first statement.

As a society, we very much DO, in fact, reject pedophiles (as one example) in their totality. If it comes to your attention that a friend, neighbor, or workmate is indeed a practicing pedophile, are you going to keep on going bowling with him? Watch a ball game with him? Invite him over for dinner, whether you have kids at home or not? I think not, unless he's a very close friend and trying to change.

Not only will such a person be shunned by family and friends--and rightly so--but he is also subject to sanctions by the greater society, such as jail and fines. In Florida, the law now says pedophiles can be kept indefinitely--perhaps for life--in a mental facility AFTER they have served their jail sentence, without further court order. Many states now post pedophiles' pictures on the Web for everyone to see, along with their street addresses. Here in Texas, the Legislature is currently considering a bill to require convicted pedophiles to post a sign in front of their homes--"Warning--Pedophile lives here."

What else can you call this treatment by individuals and society but "rejection of you, the pedophile"?

My point is not to defend pedophiles--simply to point out that rejecting a person's sexuality IS indeed a rejection of that person. The real point at issue is which brands of sexuality are truly deserving of such rejection.

Bill

"If we all loved one another as much as we say we love God, I reckon there wouldn't be as much meanness in the world as there is."--from the movie Resurrection (1979)

22

2001 District Convention Program

by Osarsif in

jw
friends

teachers of god's word.

district convention of jehovah's witnesses 2001-2002

fridayinspired scriptures beneficial for teaching -- 2 timothy 3:16morning9:30 music.

XJWBill

Osarif, thanks for finding and posting the schedule.

I left in 1977. What slackers these modern JW's are! Back then, our District Assemblies always ran 4 days, not just 3, and we had evening sessions, too! Think I'll write Brooklyn . . . NOT!

It will be interesting to hear what the "new provisions for spiritual advancement" are. I've got some great ideas on that subject, but the GB doesn't want to hear them.

Bill

"If we all loved one another as much as we say we love God, I reckon there wouldn't be as much meanness in the world as there is."--from the movie Resurrection (1979)

29

HEY! 2001 CONVENTION POINTS

by Amazing in

jw
friends

the following is a recent jw advertisement about their upcoming conventions.

it can be found on the jw-media.org site under recent news.

i will quote them in italics and then make my own observations.. jehovah's witnesses office of public information.

XJWBill

Hey Bill
If I'd served you I'd have given you extras on your weinie [;p]

Damn! . . . Where were you when I needed you, Free? We could have made byooteeful music, er, uh, Kingdom Melodies togathair . . .

Bill

29

HEY! 2001 CONVENTION POINTS

by Amazing in

jw
friends

the following is a recent jw advertisement about their upcoming conventions.

it can be found on the jw-media.org site under recent news.

i will quote them in italics and then make my own observations.. jehovah's witnesses office of public information.

XJWBill

Hey Free2BMe--

I always carried my Bible and looked spiritual at assemblies. How come no sisters ever asked for MY address? Or even what I wanted on my weinie . . .

Bill

"If we all loved one another as much as we say we love God, I reckon there wouldn't be as much meanness in the world as there is."--from the movie Resurrection (1979)

19

rutherford

by jurs in

jw
friends

ever since i started questioning wether the truth is really the truth.

i'm apalled at how much information is out there that just shatters the organization.

one intersesting site out of many is jesus-witnesses.com (the seven points of watchtower indoctrination) anyhow i never knew that rutherford smoked cigars and was a notorious alcoholic.

XJWBill

larc, thanks for sharing. I can understand the desire to protect your family's privacy.

Still, the story leaves me wondering, did she . . . did they . . . ?

Bill

(BTW--it's "heiress.")

"If we all loved one another as much as we say we love God, I reckon there wouldn't be as much meanness in the world as there is."--from the movie Resurrection (1979)

19

rutherford

by jurs in

jw
friends

ever since i started questioning wether the truth is really the truth.

i'm apalled at how much information is out there that just shatters the organization.

one intersesting site out of many is jesus-witnesses.com (the seven points of watchtower indoctrination) anyhow i never knew that rutherford smoked cigars and was a notorious alcoholic.

XJWBill

Farkel, the stuff about Russell is fascinating. Are you trying to tell us that this researcher friend of yours is planning to publish a book with all the juicy details? Please tell us when it's coming out! Inquiring minds and earnest seekers of truth want to know . . . .

Bill

"If we all loved one another as much as we say we love God, I reckon there wouldn't be as much meanness in the world as there is."--from the movie Resurrection (1979)

19

rutherford

by jurs in

jw
friends

ever since i started questioning wether the truth is really the truth.

i'm apalled at how much information is out there that just shatters the organization.

one intersesting site out of many is jesus-witnesses.com (the seven points of watchtower indoctrination) anyhow i never knew that rutherford smoked cigars and was a notorious alcoholic.

XJWBill

p.s. thanks for the insights in the email -- it gave me food for thought. btw, you're older than you look!

I'll take that for a compliment, teejay. Actually, I have a LOT of gray in my beard....but for some reason, it doesn't show up in snapshots!

Feel free to email again if you need to.

Bill

"If we all loved one another as much as we say we love God, I reckon there wouldn't be as much meanness in the world as there is."--from the movie Resurrection (1979)

29

HEY! 2001 CONVENTION POINTS

by Amazing in

jw
friends

the following is a recent jw advertisement about their upcoming conventions.

it can be found on the jw-media.org site under recent news.

i will quote them in italics and then make my own observations.. jehovah's witnesses office of public information.

XJWBill

Is it true they don't cook and serve meals at assemblies anymore? (I left in 1977.) If so, I'm shocked. The WTBTS used to brag about how wonderfully efficient their dining arrangments were, so much so that even the United States Army came to find out how they fed so many people so quickly!

I remember going to Atlanta Stadium one Saturday before the Divine Name District Assembly in 1971, along with a lot of other brothers from our congregation to help with getting ready for all the hungry crowds. I spent the better part of the afternoon hunched over a huge stainless-steel cooking pot or deep-frier, scrubbing away like hell with steel wool and detergent. Whoever had used it before had left a lot of gummy residue that had dried harder than concrete.

I have to say I remember the assembly food as being almost always pretty darn good for mass produced vittles. Down South here, fried chicken was always on the menu--finger lickin' good, too!

So what DO all those hungry people do nowadays for food? And why'd they stop?

Bill, who still has dishpan hands from that ordeal

"If we all loved one another as much as we say we love God, I reckon there wouldn't be as much meanness in the world as there is."--from the movie Resurrection (1979)

62

The Natural Law fallacy and Homosexuality

by JanH in

jw
friends

there is a fallacy of logic that is so common that few people realize that it is, indeed, a fallacy of logic: the fallacy by appeal to nature.. one argument against homosexuality goes something like this:.

the natural use of the reproductive organs is obviously to make children.

using these organs in a way that cannot produce children is unnatural and thus ethically wrong.. .

XJWBill

Mulan's point is well taken--we can bandy the word "normal" about until it loses all meaning.

The truth is, the definition of "normal," just like that of "sane" (think about it!) is not absolutely fixed--it goes by majority vote at any point in time.

Having worked a night job for many years until recently, it is now entirely normal for me, if left undisturbed, to sleep till noon and have breakfast in the middle of the afternoon. But I'm sure most folks wouldn't consider it normal!

In ancient Greece, as far as I can tell, it was quite normal for a married man to take an adolescent boy under his wing, teach him how to fight, use a sword, throw a javelin--and bugger him. But we'd all have the adult thrown in jail now for that.

What's considered normal varies from place to place and time to time, and is parallel to the "natural" fallacy that started this thread.

In the gay world, cruising for sex in bathrooms and screwing in public parks is considered low-class and trashy, at least here in the Deep South.

To be honest, there is a great deal of "promiscuous" sex and quite a few "open" relationships. There's also a large block of us, myself included, who have or want just one partner, faithful and monogamous for a lifetime. I can't quote percentages, because I don't know what they are, and I'm not sure anybody does. But I'd be willing to bet that the biggest group would be single gay men who have sex with one lover at a time until the relationship breaks up, and they move on to another relationship.

The promiscuous life is not for me, but I've been around the block once or twice, and I do understand the terrible power of loneliness. With no social training or legal backing, relationships are hard for us to keep together. I've got better things to do than throw dirt at two lonely people who get together in privacy and do whatever.

What gets me is preachers and church members who are so quick to rant about "promiscuous homosexuals"--but notice, you rarely hear them yelling about "promiscuous heterosexuals" do you? Or unwed mothers? Or "living in sin" as MILLIONS of good, "normal" heterosexuals do nowadays? One is theologically as big a sin as the other, so why the distinction? I can't quite figure that out.

Although, after Princess Diana died, I read or heard of a Catholic priest saying that she is undoubtedly in Hell, having been fornicating with her boyfriend and dying without repenting of it. He was, of course, following orthodox Christian teaching to the letter--but does anyone want to believe him? Diana was a troubled soul with several flaws, but to send her to Hell for being so damn lonely and insecure . . . ?

I'm an orthodox Christian, too, but the God I believe in has different criteria. See Matthew 24.

Bill

"If we all loved one another as much as we say we love God, I reckon there wouldn't be as much meanness in the world as there is."--from the movie Resurrection (1979)

8

Rutherford & Creature Worship

by Farkel in

jw
friends

but then again, he was just an imperfect man, right?

after all, he was just an imperfect man.

but he was just an imperfect man.

XJWBill

Nice work, Farkel. Hope your mom eventually loses those blinders.

Rutherford's grand slogan, "Religion is a snare and a racket" has got to be one of the all-time classic examples of pyschological projection and trasferrence. We often project onto others what we really feel about ourselves--and brother, what a sweet racket the Judge had!!! The old hypocrite--

Bill

"If we all loved one another as much as we say we love God, I reckon there wouldn't be as much meanness in the world as there is."--from the movie Resurrection (1979)