yrs2long

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Posts by yrs2long

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  1

  How I lost Religion

  by yrs2long in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  religion and how i lost it.

  http://www.infidels.org/library/magazines/tsr/index.shtml.

  "jesus loves me this i know, for the bible tells me so.

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  yrs2long

  Religion and How I Lost It
  Bob Hypes
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  http://www.infidels.org/library/magazines/tsr/index.shtml
  
  "Jesus loves me this I know, for the Bible tells me so." These lyrics constitute one of my earliest memories of religious instruction or the concept of religion. They may formulate the base experience for many others as well.
  
  Even if the song itself does not elucidate such a memory, the concept implied in these lyrics may. This may comprise the primary religious training of the preschool child, a training based on unqualified love directed from this brotherly figure, Jesus, to the lowly little child, a source of warmth and comfort, a contrast to the child's own fragility. No matter where we go or what we do the rest of our lives, that image will remain in some part of our being. It may be the one feeling that is hardest to shake when we grow to question and doubt this religion called Christianity.
  
  We next learn that God is the creator of all that we behold and all that we will never understand. He is the grandfather many of us never knew or an extension of the grandfather on whose knee we sat when young. We also become aware of God's propensity for wrath, and we are told not to tempt him or displease him. Then we are introduced to the Holy Spirit and the unfathomable tale of the Trinity. That three can equal one is totally outside of our ability to understand. In fact, few, if any, adults can comprehend this one. The story continues to become more muddled and confusing, and yet we are told we must believe, and we oblige. Belief becomes a habit driven by fear of the unknown or the fear of rejection if we doubt or question, so our questions are internalized, and we begin to feel guilt.
  
  We now learn a more rigid set of moral values. We learn that thinking a wrong thing is the same as committing the act. Our guilt grows, and our ability to deal with it overwhelms us. The feelings of inadequacy wash over us, challenging the depth and the coldness of the baptismal immersion. Thoreau said it well: "They think they love God! It is only his old clothes, of which they make scarecrows for the children. Where will they come nearer to God than in those very children?"
  
  Theists base their belief on faith, belief based on emotion and culturalization. When reason and rationale challenge that faith, then the reason can have no value and the rationale must be incorrect. Faith is irrefutable and errorless because it must be in order to validate all in which they believe. They then raise their children into the habit of accepting absurdities, mysteries, convoluted thinking, and supplication. They do this while the children's minds are supple and moldable. They know that the habits of thought thus formed stand a good chance of lasting a lifetime.
  
  Belief existing in such a vacuum serves to alienate the faithful of each new generation from the world around them. They either live in judgment of anyone who does not believe as they do, or they begin to question their own values. The following poem by John Dryden may best express this phenomenon:
  
  By education most have been misled;
  So they believe, because they were so bred.
  The priest continues what the nurse began,
  And thus the child imposes on the man.
  
  What I thought of as an honest and critical look at the religion I had embraced all of my life had gone on for years as a halfhearted effort. I wanted to find the truth, yet I wanted that truth to support that in which I had always believed. In other words, I was front-loading my search by trying to find corroborating evidences, not by searching for the real truth.
  
  As I delved into the questions raised by rational thought, I increasingly found more questions. Each answer ended up raising dozens of other questions. I finally had to face the fact that the only way I would ever find the answers I sought would be to let the truth lead me to its destination. I then stumbled onto the following quotation. It is known as the Maxim of Freethought: "He who cannot reason is defenseless; he who fears to reason has a cowardly mind; he who will not reason is willing to be deceived and will deceive all who listen to him." This struck home. I realized my cowardice and resolved to overcome it. I threw myself anew into research but with a new approach.
  
  Biblical literalism and inerrancy appear to be enemies to the truth, and subsequent study on my part has led me to believe this to an absolute degree. Biblical literalism, as defined and interpreted by various denominations and individuals, has produced such things as the Amish shunning of modern lifestyles and snake handling to prove one's faith and refusing medical treatment to oneself or one's family. Biblical literalism has led to prejudicial actions against nonbelievers, including imprisonment, censure, torture, death, and even wars. Religion, says Feuerbach, is self-estrangement. There is the separation of the world into one spiritual and one earthly. Man sees himself, first, as an individual with limitations, then as a self without limits, empowered by his God.
  
  A major purpose of fundamentalist religions is to supply a safe harbor for those who are insecure, fearful, lost or lonely, by justifying a way of life with narrow, defining principles and prejudices. The authority of the Bible is the final arbiter of any question. The inerrancy of the Bible is the final argument to justify or indemnify, becoming the central focus of such a life. The main philosophy of fundamentalists is one of constancy in which they find solace against an outside world filled with questions. They insulate themselves against such assaults by finding answers in these words and ideas, no matter how flawed they may prove to be.
  
  To be human means we are doomed to explaining our world, not simply and directly, but only indirectly, through these interpretations. We dwell in our interpretations. In explicating a phenomenon, we always put it in terms limited by our ability to understand, always based in our own prejudices and preconceptions. This means that we will understand things partially and inadequately, through language rather than a godlike omniscience. Therefore, we internalize our belief structure, i.e., that which causes and enhances our beliefs. At the same time, we externalize its effects on our lives and that of those about us. This duality of nature does not lead us to understanding or knowledge but to faith. Faith in an improperly arrived at conclusion based on illconceived thought processes becomes so entrenched that it is often thought to be the truth even when it flies in the face of reality.
  
  No reasonable person can believe that the guesses of preliterate man, upon which the myths of gods and the supernatural are based, were true. The beliefs of these primitives, however, were more reasonable in terms of their limited and insignificant knowledge, than the beliefs of today's religionists who have masses of information available to them.
  
  It is apparent that such faith is based upon emotion, rather than reason. Emotion needs no proof and rejects all questioning. Reason demands answers, questions conflicts, and objectively studies the issues from every available source and viewpoint. Reason is fearless thought, undeterred by legal, spiritual, or social penalties. Dissenting viewpoints do not alarm those who seek truth. The knowledge seeker who has a passion for truth fears nothing except error.
  
  I have found the average skeptic to have a much broader knowledge of the Bible and theological issues than the average Christian. Whether led to skepticism by knowledge or led to the knowledge by their skepticism, the truth of the skeptic is that he is ultimately led by a search for truth.
  
  Few Christians can delineate the reasons and evidences for their faith. Almost any attempt to elucidate qualitative responses on the subject elicit catch phrases and incoherent babbling. If one believes, based on naivety or innocence, it may appear charming or quaint, such as a child believing in Santa Claus. If one believes culturally, because he was raised to believe certain things, it can be understood, even if there is no other basis. If one believes as a result of erroneous information or faulty study, it is lamentable. When one defends, propounds, and propagates such error as fact and refuses to examine other information objectively, it is intellectually reprehensible, and I will challenge that type of belief every time.
  
  Biblical literalism presents more questions than answers. It offers a god we cannot respect or understand, a god who changes vastly from passage to passage and event to event, a lack of consistency in what should be consistent if our faith is not to be shaken. What is impossible for our minds to believe our hearts cannot worship.
  
  (Bob Hypes, P. O. Box 305, Howe, IN 46746.)
  
  EDITOR'S NOTE: Bob Hypes' letters have appeared in previous issues of The Skeptical Review. He is a former Church-of-Christ preacher, and he tells a familiar story. He grew up believing what he had been taught in his childhood, but when he engaged in serious Bible studies as an adult, he found things in it that made it impossible to continue believing what he had been taught as a child. Many former fundamentalists will say that the Bible is its own worst enemy. If we could just get more Christians to study this book that they claim to believe in so much, the inevitable result would be fewer Christians. The Christian religion thrives on ignorance of the very book that is its foundation.
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  34

  confused Im a non JW and my boyfriend is one of the JWs

  by sun_dae in

  1. social
  2. relationships

  i'm 21 years old and currently in a relationship with a baptised jw.

  i have been studying with the jws for 2 years before we met.

  well, i have to admit, i did not enjoy studying with them until about 10 months ago when i became interested of digging the "truth" although it means my sources was only the jw.

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  yrs2long

  Welcome to the board, Sun_dae. This issue comes up often and you can verify and probably identify with many who have posted on this very topic by doing a search. In fact, I recall a few who returned a short while later and posted the results of their relationships. I think their was even a poster called concerned_mama.

  I'm not understanding why your boyfriend wants you to commit to something that he hasn't fully committed to himself. Though he claims that the woman he dates or marries MUST become baptized, he still somehow manages to get himself attached to non-witness women. Is this his method of attracting followers to the faith in lieu of going door-to-door?
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  34

  Remember Dateline??

  by Joyzabel in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i'm trying to get some comments that active jehovah's witnesses may have heard after dateline aired back on may 28, 2002.

  do you remember any comments made about the dateline program either made from the platform at the kingdom hall, or in private conversations with other jw's?

  how were the people who where on dateline viewed in your area, especially at the kingdom hall or by other jws?

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  yrs2long

  My brother watched it and said the people were obviously apostates. Why the girl Erica was wearing a cross and her boyfriend/husband? had a beard or something.
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  75

  Those scary apostates outside conventions with banners and megaphones...

  by dolphman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  remember those people?

  my mom would tell me to not even look at them.

  they had bullhorns, banners, waving at us as we walked in.

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  yrs2long

  As a teen, I just thought they were looney. It was bad enough I had to dedicate whole weekends to sitting through boring talks, but to waste it standing outside holding signs and shouting to people who thought me possessed would have been worse. I still can't imagine that I would ever do that. There are better ways to waste a weekend.

  Has anyone ever been successful in turning someone away in this manner?
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  36

  Lingerie Discussion

  by pettygrudger in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  kay - nuff of the doom,gloom, flame wars & down right negativity - lets discuss women's lingerie!.

  with the day of love coming up , i have a few questions for you folks (guys & girls - could get interesting).

  seriously though, ladies, do you feel comfortable buying & wearing lingerie?

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  yrs2long

  Rhonda,

  I love the stuff. I have drawers and drawers and drawers of it in all styles and colors. The first time I got any pretty lingerie was for my bridal shower and I remember staring at the pretty colors, soft fabric and frilly lace. It's been an addiction ever since.

  I love taking warm scented baths, putting on scented lotion and topping it off with sexy lingerie. I do this even when I know the only one in the bed will be me! But it's even more exciting when I'm dressing with my significant other in mind. It's a turnon for me and I feel sexy as hell in it. It's also great for signaling when you're feeling frisky without your having to be too aggressive about it and can be the first step in foreplay.

  I take note of different styles in magazines, look in their shopping section, go to malls and often buy online. I buy most of it but enjoy receiving it from my significant other also, especially when he buys something he'd like to see me in and not just what he thinks I'd like.
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  3

  Cuz I'm the TAX MAN

  by Yerusalyim in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  jesus h. christ and ouch!.

  went in to the accountant to do my income taxes this year.

  between my wife, myself, and our rental property that has to be counted as income even though my mortgage is larger than the amount i receive in rent income my gross income for the year was $50,000.00.

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  yrs2long

  You'll have to let me in on your secret, Yeru. I also own and I'd be happy to only pay $1188. I paid over 10x that amount to the feds alone.
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  7

  SIN WILL SET YOU FREE

  by somebody in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was sitting here one day, after reading a confusing conversation that was going on on one of the jw only sites, actually feeling sorry for jws in certain situations.

  since i have found love , i have a whole different outlook on life, and my heart goes out to those who feel that they have to carry the heavy yolk of the wts.

  some jws are stuck not being able to date or remarry because their spouses had left and divorced them and then refused to see them ever again.

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  yrs2long

  I found myself in this unenviable position for almost 5 years. For me, going back to my ex-jw husband who was in good-standing was not an option because he was physically abusive. My only other option besides cheating? Waiting upon Jehovah.

  I wasn't stupid enough to have a child with my husband, but I did hope to have some in the future and yet for nearly 5 years, there I was, allowing my childbearing years to creep by while I awaited some resolution from 'Jehovah'.

  It's situations such as these whereby the society commits grave errors. They'd do so much better to stick to the things written, and not try to spell out policy for unwritten things like oral sex, beards and smoking.

  This calls to mind the situation of a sister whose jw husband would physically abuse her and yet somehow remain in good standing. However, later he gets disfellowshipped for smoking, something not directly prohibited by the bible.

  So....... beat your wife and you're let off on your own recognizance; smoke and you have to get the hell out of here!

  Go figure.
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  15

  What was your most embarassing moment?

  by kwijibo in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  mine was at the kh giving a talk - got muddled up and almost said the f word into the mike.

  in fact - i said it in my mind or under my breath and then panicked because i thought i had said it out loud but the audience didn't seem to react so i new i must have not said it out loud.

  i wonder if anyone noticed me breaking into a cold sweat........... anyone got any more?

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  yrs2long

  Going in service for the first time with my overly critical mother-in-law and being so nervous that I called the householder(a male) my own female name.

  I invited a sister to accompany me on a study and she spent the entire time noisily sorting and cleaning out her purse.
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  90

  Black History Month 2003

  by sableindian in

  1. forum
  2. announcements

  augustine augustine the african by james j. o'donnell .

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  http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/jod/twayne/aug1.html

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  yrs2long

  uh Animal,

  that would be every month until Armageddon comes, and probably well into the new system of things. :)
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  106

  We're all Americans....Reparations?

  by Country Girl in

  1. social
  2. humour

  reparations.

  this country was barely populated when slaves were brought from africa.

  are you going to hunt down every descendant of slaves, many of whom took on the names of their owners families and have thousands upon thousands of descendants?

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  yrs2long

  Never try to reason the prejudice out of a man. It was not reasoned into him, and cannot be reasoned out. --- Sydney Smith 1771