Posts by Zep

5

What to believe?

by Seven in

to all, in my search for the truth i have found it.

necessary to carefully examine things from a non christian perspective.

i have visited many jewish websites and have become quite disillusioned by what i've read.

Zep

WHAT TO BELIEVE?????????

WHAT NOT TO BELIEVE!!!!!!! is better Question

Dont believe telemarketers, or salesmen,polititians (Bush or Gore LOL..you poor Yankees, then again we have J.Howard down here), anyone who tells you they have the TRUTH, mOrmons, Any guy whos half pi$$ed, any guy, errrr....Lawyers, accountants, WTBTS, Jamie Shea, NATO, Milosevic....Newspapers, CNN, UK Tabloids, WWF wrestling (its not real), Muslims: when they tell you they blew up a plane because Allah said so in the name of Jihad, the pope, anyone who claims to speak for God really!

34

Jesus' Answer for a Sign

by Friend in

the following was originally written as part of a response to criticisms against the belief that the synoptic gospel contains jesus' answer for a sign of his parousia that is realized today.

some of the language is then necessarily a bit unusual because of the originally intended audience.

lately this subject has come up in other circles so i chose to also post the comments to this forum.

Zep

The leap in logic I am indicating is that of holding that the tribulation of verse 21 is the same tribulation referenced in verse 29.

From your witnet post!

This is my problem, I dont think it as much of a leap in logic.I think its a very natural reading to conclude they are the same,,, vrse 21 and 29.I find it much easier to conclude they are the same than that they are different...thats my problem, i cant get my head around it.Basically i find it all confusing, i'm going to re-read my bible over the coming year.....see what happens?

Connecting Mat 24:21 to the the Great tribulation in Revelation...maybe?.But what about the corresponding verse in Luke21:23...to me, its impossible to make the connection from Lukes account to Revelation....but you can make the connection from LUKE to MAT vs 21 and then to vs 29 and then the end of the world in Revelation?.

The problem is that i'm viewing things like this.MAT is written before the destruction of the temple where they were expecting the end to come when they see 'the disgusting thing standing where it out not'....the languange in MAT seems so strong in this respect that the end would near then( by connecting vs 21 & 29).So, The romans destroy Jerusalem...and LUKE translates 'the disgusting thing' to mean 'armies'...but the end hasn't come? so then in pops 'the gentile times' to allow more time...which is not even hinted of in MAT for whatever reason? (or is it?) .
I'm looking it at this way, MAT was written before, and LUKE after the temple is destroyed....IS LUKE a reasonable explaination and clarification of MAT therefore?, or is it just a convenient post Temple addittion to explain why the world hasn't ended?.Then you still have the problem of 'this generation' in each account....what does that mean!
I'm not sure about any of it....i hope theres an answer...my faith in the bible has been eroded a little more than i would have liked.Reading MAT 24 etc is one of the reasons why...i just dont have answers to questions i'd probably rather not have asked in the first place!.I just hope i'm dead wrong and i'm missing something?!

Edited by - Zep on 18 August 2000 2:9:56

78

Modern-day Israel's Identity

by Onetruesource in

i would like to open this discussion on israel, because i have come to learn many things about it.

the bible scriptures continue to prophecy about the nation of israel.

we all know that the natural nation has been disowned by jehovah, because unfaithfulness.

Zep

Frenchy, they need a web site and to open up a bit.I mean, the WT society they are critising by saying its in a disapproved state is more open than these guys...!

BTW, i got a little laugh out of being called swine and being told that my heart wasn't right.Certain Religious people amaze me sometimes....I mean, i just call people 'crackpots' etc.. but when religious people abuse you they go straight to the bible and quote a verse as if its any better because they're somehow using the bible.I call someone an 'idiot'....they go to a verse in the bible and call you swine, Yeah, but thats OK because its the words of Jesus!

34

Jesus' Answer for a Sign

by Friend in

the following was originally written as part of a response to criticisms against the belief that the synoptic gospel contains jesus' answer for a sign of his parousia that is realized today.

some of the language is then necessarily a bit unusual because of the originally intended audience.

lately this subject has come up in other circles so i chose to also post the comments to this forum.

Zep

Friend, you gave some reasonable replies to my above question...but i'm not sure.I guess i'll have to do some more reading!.

Personnally, i dont agree with BX's interpretation.

Heres my big problems with MAT24 etc:

Jesus tells the apostles that the temple will be destroyed.Then you have the problem of what was the question asked my the apostles because its different in each gospel!.

LUKE:When will these things actually be, and what will be the sign when all these things are destined to come to a conclusion!(MARK is similar)

....This seems to be 2 questions about about 1 event!.The destruction of Jerusalem!

MAT:Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming/presence and the conclusion of the system of things.

Now theres 2 questions about 2 separate events.The only way i can reconcile the questions asked in MAT/MARK/LUKE is to think the apostles asked the question in MARK/LUKE.MATThew is just expressing the implication of the apostles question in MK & LUKE, that they thought Jesus was referring to his 2nd coming when he said the temple would be destroyed....something like that!?

MAT 24:14-the gospel being preached to the whole world- may be talking about some distant future event yet to happen as you say?

The problems i have, is when i get to MAT 24:21-22..where it talks about a Tribulation that has not occurred NOR WILL OCCUR AGAIN and if the days hadn't been cut short no flesh would be saved.This is directly linked to the part were he talks about the destruction of the temple....

Then you Go to verse 29...where it says IMMEDIATLEY after the Tribulation of those days...the sun will be darkened and moon will fail to give light and then you'll see the son of man coming etc.IMMEDIATLEY means IMMEDIATLEY to me.So there you have it, Jesus is saying the destruction of the temple and the end of the world go hand in hand?.The only way i see out of this is if you say that the sun and the moon was darkened after the tribulation(destruction of Jerusalem) for near 2000 yrs plus...disconnecting from "AND then the Sign of the son of man will appear in heaven" in verses 30-31 to allow time.This seems a bit dodgy to me, but then again?????.I think anyone who read matthews account in the days of the destruction of Jerusalem would have expected the end right then.
Anyway you the go to LUKE...who i think wrote his account after the destruction of Jerusalem, or it was modified after because he translates "the disgusting thing' into armies around Jerusalem...like he had witnessed the event, i dont think they were the original words or Jesus!.He also clarifies again using the term "the gentile times"(which i think is another post temple destruction addittion) and saying that Jerusalem will be trampled...this allows a bit more breathing space between the destruction of Jerusalem and the end of the world....you could probably draw a comparison between Jerusalem being trampled on and verse 29 of MAT...The sun will be darkened and moon fail to give its light etc.....maybe???? reaching a little here?!

Then you have to bite the bullet on "this generation"...what does that mean.JW's answer doesn't really sit with me....double meanings are just too much to take sometimes.

I always connected 'this generation' to (Mat16:28, MK9:1, Lk 9:27) BTW

Edited by - Zep on 17 August 2000 21:0:9

34

Jesus' Answer for a Sign

by Friend in

the following was originally written as part of a response to criticisms against the belief that the synoptic gospel contains jesus' answer for a sign of his parousia that is realized today.

some of the language is then necessarily a bit unusual because of the originally intended audience.

lately this subject has come up in other circles so i chose to also post the comments to this forum.

Zep

What did Jesus mean by these words?

I tell you this: there are some standing here who will not taste death before they have seen the son of man coming in his Kingdom(Mat16:28, MK9:1, Lk 9:27)

I tell you this: before you have gone through all the towns of Israel the son of man will have come(Mat 10:23)

Either Jesus was lying or he was being very Cryptic about the whole thing...in which case WHY?.How would the apostles have understood these words?.

44

OK whos read some books here?

by Zep in

jw
friends

crisis of conscience,gtr, and all the rest etc.

i just recieved getile times by coj...i ordered it 2 months ago when i was full into analysing dub doctrine...but since then, i just dont care anymore about dub doctrine or refuting it...but its still an interesting read though.i'm going through it v e r y s l o w l y..... has anyone else read some books from here: [url]www.commentarypress.com[/url].

"in search of christian freedom" looks interesting?...sign of the last days?...dont all xdubs have to read coc...isn't it a sort of right of passage for you guys?..

Zep

Crisis of Conscience,GTR, and all the rest etc

I just recieved Getile times by COJ...i ordered it 2 months ago when i was full into analysing Dub doctrine...but since then, i just dont care anymore about dub doctrine or refuting it...but its still an interesting read though.I'm going through it V E R Y S L O W L Y....
Has anyone else read some books from here: [url]www.commentarypress.com[/url]

"In search of Christian freedom" looks interesting?...sign of the last days?...dont all Xdubs have to read COC...isn't it a sort of right of passage for you guys?.

Edited by - Zep on 17 August 2000 2:32:15

34

Jesus' Answer for a Sign

by Friend in

the following was originally written as part of a response to criticisms against the belief that the synoptic gospel contains jesus' answer for a sign of his parousia that is realized today.

some of the language is then necessarily a bit unusual because of the originally intended audience.

lately this subject has come up in other circles so i chose to also post the comments to this forum.

Zep

BX's interpretation of Mat24

[url] http://www.hourglass2.org/wwwboard/messages/268477.html[/url]

Edited by - Zep on 17 August 2000 1:45:27

11

I Will

by Seven in

remember you,.

will you remember me?.

don't let your life pass you by,.

Zep

Path, Bon Scott was the original lead singer of AC/DC...sung TNT & Back in black& dirty deeds...all the real hits...its common knowledge in Australia.I dont know, the lead singer of Acdc these days sounds like hes choking on gravel.
I can understand how you a little p'ssed at the Pumpkins,,,i mean,You want to to a concert and hear atleast a few hits mixed in with the obscure stuff....Rock bands that take themselves too seriously as artists really do irritate.As i see it, Rock bands have a life of about 3 albums these days MAX...after that they tend to just suck, it becomes the same old same old!.

34

Jesus' Answer for a Sign

by Friend in

the following was originally written as part of a response to criticisms against the belief that the synoptic gospel contains jesus' answer for a sign of his parousia that is realized today.

some of the language is then necessarily a bit unusual because of the originally intended audience.

lately this subject has come up in other circles so i chose to also post the comments to this forum.

Zep

Friend, did you read BIBLE EXAMINERS ideas on Mat24 over at h20?

16

ARE JWs Snoops?

by Zep in

jw
friends

on the the back of awake june22 is a short little story!.

last year, in maryland, u.s.a, a man politely refused the wt and awake magazines.his younger, however asked if she could have them, and the father said that she could.the two cleaning their car and putting trash in a nearby trash container[in other words a dumpster].

concerned that the magazines might be discarded, the witness who offered them decided to return later[in other words late at night/early morning] and check the container[container is such a nice word...but in reality its called a dumpster...].

Zep

On the the back of Awake june22 is a short little story!

Last year, in Maryland, U.S.A, a man politely refused the WT and AWAKE magazines.His younger, however asked if she could have them, and the father said that she could.The two cleaning their car and putting trash in a nearby trash container[in other words a DUMPSTER]
Concerned that the magazines might be discarded, the witness who offered them decided to return later[in other words late at night/early morning] and check the container[Container is such a nice word...but in reality its called a DUMPSTER...]

I have a few questions...I mean, where would the WT get this story from, who would honestly sent them this story.Is this regular practice at Kingdom hall, to rumage through peoples trash cans...or public dumpsters or whatever?.The guy in the photo below talking to the women with horse looks a little too clean and happy for someone who's just been rumaging through a Dumpster BTW, he doesn't look like a snoop to me....Yeah, but its always the straight ones, hes probably wearing his mothers underwear under that trenchcoat!

Edited by - Zep on 14 August 2000 21:17:58

Edited by - Zep on 14 August 2000 21:23:46