Some muscician dude from 'Sly and the family stone' is. That'd qualify as famous, wouldn't it?. I remember he was in Awake years and years ago anyway...
Posts by Zep
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50
Evolution Anyone???
by Steve Josef ini read alot of posts and it seems that though you all (or most) have left the kh, you still believe in a "father" or a "jesus" that created everything.
since i too and one that left the kh, i have delved into science and have come the conculsion that god does not exist in a spirit form, but is life itself.
the "creator" of all things is evolution.
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Zep
2bfound, thankyou for the references.
You talk about Micro-evolution as opposed to macro-evolution.When i was learning about evolution I found it very hard to accept micro-evolution and yet not accept macro-evolution. The problem hinges on how do you define a 'kind'? Is a kind defined as mophological similarity or just the ability to interbreed. In nature, from memory, there are certain species that pose the following problem if you wish to go ahead and define a 'kind' as the ability to interbreed. For example, there is one species i'll call A, now species A can breed with Species B but not with species C. But then species C can breed with species B but not with A. This fact seems to throw the definition of a kind as that which is capable breeding right out the window because species B can breed with both A& C and yet C and A cant breed, yet they are obviously related and you'd be mad to say otherwise.
You then have to define things in terms of morphological similarities. Does that mean that, for example, all bats are one 'kind'. The variety of Bats around the world is very large, larger than he difference between Man and chimpanzee i believe. On that basis are we humans therefore to be grouped into one kind with the chimps? The definition of a kind seems to be too vague and too arbitrary for me.On your point about there being no 'Junk' DNA. But if there is no Junk DNA as you say, then why do we have an appendix?. The appendix is useless to us but in lower animals it is functional. In animals it is used to digest cellulose (fibre),something we no longer can digest yet we still have an appendix. If there was no Junk DNA then how can the appendix exist, since it is junk, usesless to us?. It one of many examples of a vestigial structure that i believe provides very strong evidence for evolution.
Thank you for the links etc, i'll check'em out. As it stands at the moment, i lean very strongly to the idea of Macro-evolution, though i dont discount some kind of creator starting the initial process of evolution. This idea, i've been told, is the same idea proposed in the book 'Darwin on trial', if we are talking about the same book. I'm referring to the one that was over at commentary-press.com...but i dont think it was written by Johnson???
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50
Evolution Anyone???
by Steve Josef ini read alot of posts and it seems that though you all (or most) have left the kh, you still believe in a "father" or a "jesus" that created everything.
since i too and one that left the kh, i have delved into science and have come the conculsion that god does not exist in a spirit form, but is life itself.
the "creator" of all things is evolution.
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Zep
2bfound, but how do you explain vestigial structures and junk DNA?. Both are accounted for perfectly by Evolution, and yet i've never heard a Creationist explain them to any satisfaction.
How do you explain the diffences and yet the similarities between certain animals, like for example: the Lion in Africa and the jaguar South America. Creationists try and pass them of as 'variety within a kind'. Yet they never are able to define what a 'kind' actually is???? The idea opens itself up to huge can of worms.
You say that Evolutionists have not provided a working model of how it all began. I would say that what they HAVE provided is way more than any creationist has, unless your hiding some info under your hat. How did God actually start things... just by miracle?, thats all we get!.
How do you explain things like 'The Pandas thumb', since your've read Gould.Perhaps you can provide me with some links that can answer some of these Questions for me?
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69
Christmas Star = Satan?!
by reagan_oconnor ini was talking with my husband the other day about the jw's belief that the "christmas star" that guided the magi to christ was the doings of satan.
he didn't believe me; this is what i found in the "my book of bible stories" (copied verbatim from cd-rom).
who do you think made that new star to shine?
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Zep
You'd think Satan could figure a better way of trying to kill Jesus. I mean, sticking a star in the sky so some guys over in Babylon might interpret it as the birth of a Jewish king and then hopefully travel all that way to tell Herod. Really, Satan could have thought up a better scheme.
Then on the flip side, why did God bother sticking a star in the sky in the first place. Just for the benefit of a bunch of gentile astrologers and their Camels ...yeah right!
The bible is full of silly stories.
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25
Ahimelech, Jesus and Inerrancy
by Simon inapologies for plagurism.
i don't know where i originally got this from so can't give due credit.... how much did jesus know about the bible?
not having a handy edition around, he had to rely on his memory.
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Zep
or to be more exact:
http://www.infidels.org/library/magazines/tsr/1999/6/996david.htm
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25
Ahimelech, Jesus and Inerrancy
by Simon inapologies for plagurism.
i don't know where i originally got this from so can't give due credit.... how much did jesus know about the bible?
not having a handy edition around, he had to rely on his memory.
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Zep
http://www.infidels.org/library/magazines/tsr/
Simon, i think you might have got it from the above site somewhere. I spend hours going Farrel Tills stuff. It's good stuff huh!
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50
Evolution Anyone???
by Steve Josef ini read alot of posts and it seems that though you all (or most) have left the kh, you still believe in a "father" or a "jesus" that created everything.
since i too and one that left the kh, i have delved into science and have come the conculsion that god does not exist in a spirit form, but is life itself.
the "creator" of all things is evolution.
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Zep
Steve, I'm like you, i consider evolution to be right the money. Having read 'the Blind watchMaker' and a few other books, i finally came round to the idea. Its the only thing that makes any sense of all the evidence. I not sure how the first self replicating molecule and proteins came about, perhaps they were created by some higher being, but it's still clear that we evolved from single cell organisms at the very least. On the idea of God, i'm not sure. Perhaps we humans will eventually evolved into a God like entity capable of controling nature, maybe we are in the latent stages of becoming God himself/herself. I also read, or at least tried to get my head around modern physics...Quantum mechanics etc, and it just left me baffled. What is time, space etc...The amount of realities & alternate universes that could be possible, it defies the imagination and i just cant know. Maybe there is some higher force that be equated to 'God' and that is external to us?
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86
Submit your favorite quote!
by Spartacus inwhen a difficulty is deep and painful, the triumph is glorious and jubilant.. -spartacus 2001
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Zep
"Do or do not, there is no try"
Yoda-
AND...
Anything off 'THE LIST'
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30
Evolution a proven fact? LOL
by Rex B13 insome interesting quotes from evolutionists.
natural history, vol.
' new scientist, vol.
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Zep
BOOKS TO READ:
Abusing Science: The case against Creationism - Philip Kitcher
And anything by Dawkin's. Especially 'The blind Watchmaker'.
Who's laughing now eh!
Hey, if you looking for laughs, then go read that little blue creation book the WT press put out years ago. Creationism has never been so funny!!!!
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18
Religion - A builder or destroyer?
by Zero init has oft been presented here that religion has been destructive to the utmost, an inhibiter and counter-productive in human development and civilization.
there is always the other side of the proverbial coin.
when you think about it, where would the world of science and history be if not for religious motivation?.
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Zep
Religion has been essential to the development of Man. Religion is just Philosophy when you look at it. Everything Evolves and religions such as Christianity were once new and revolutionary. It's out of date now -Christianity-, though it did have its place and time, and still carries ideas worthy of thought and consideration.Religion is just another part of the big picture where man has slowly evolved his consciouness and gradually stepped out of the primeval swamp he came from 3.5 billion years ago.