herk....The fallacy of the analogy to 1 + 1 + 1 = 3 is this: trinitarians do not believe that each person of the Trinity is the totality of God in exclusion to the persons. The three persons are not equivalent to three Gods. Trinitarians commonly use a different mathematical analogy, one of multiplication: 1 x 1 x 1 = 1. This captures nicely the concept of mutual substance, but it is also incorrect because it assumes a modalist type of trinitarianism. The three persons of the Trinity are not like the three states of water in post-Nicene trinitarianism. So 1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3 = 1 might be more accurate, except this concept also fails to capture the sense of common substance that multiplication does. Maybe this is better: (1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3) x 1 = 1.
Leolaia
JoinedPosts by Leolaia
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37
John 1:1 and God being "with" God.
by hooberus inthe watchtower says regarding john 1:1: "someone who is "with" another person cannot also be that other person" .
this argument is used by them againist the trinity.
while trinitarians believe that there is only one god, they also believe that there are distinct persons within the one god and that each person is god.
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Jesus of African Heritage. :)
by Record inhave archeologist discovered the race of jesus?.
his race didn?t matter to us.
and then in genesis 24:37-38, they use my father?s house.
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Leolaia
Has anyone watched the program ANCIENT EVIDENCE on the Discovery Channel? They have had episodes on Jesus, the apostles, Peter, Mary, etc. The actors playing the parts look much more authentically Middle Eastern than we have normally been accustomed to in the Western media:
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Second Hand Lions and Lost in Translation
by Mulan indave and i are both suffering with miserable colds, so yesterday we rented 4 movies!!
we watched two of them.. .
dave laughed throughout "lost in translation" because he has worked in japan, and so much of it was very familiar to him.
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Leolaia
About Lost in Translation, I stayed at that hotel last year and it was as grand as it appears in the film. The story about meeting a movie star in the hotel is also not in any way improbable at all. On a prior trip, my boyfriend (literally) bumped into Robin Williams, and last month he saw Elijah Wood and other members of the cast of the Lord of the Rings who were in town to promote the movie. Not to mention Chow Yun Fat from an earlier trip! That's an amazing hotel. Did you know that it is on the top floors of the second tallest building in Tokyo, and if the doorman on the first floor recognizes you (if you do repeat business they ask if they could videotape you for a "promotional video" which is really a training video for their staff to know the repeat clients by sight), he will radio ahead to the general manager at the lobby so he will greet you when you step off the elevator!
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THE PASSION OF CHRIST
by sandy inhow many here are planning to see this movie.
also, can any of you direct me here to any topics about jesus himself.
i want to read up on the history of jesus.
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Leolaia
Yerusalyim....Yes, you are absolutely right. I wish the film paid more attention to historical accuracy than Christian tradition....but after all, this is just a passion play....
WillPower....There is absolutely no evidence that the Romans had prisoners carry a pole to their execution. As Yerusalyim said, classical Greek and Latin sources show that Roman executioners forced prisoners to carry the crosspiece. The crosspiece in Latin was called the patibulum, and the practice of making the prisoner bear it existed even before crucifixion came into existence. When the Romans borrowed crucifixion as a method and technology of execution from the Phoenicians during the Punic Wars (who in turn had borrowed it from the Persians), they combined it with their older patibulum-bearing practice to produce the ritual that Jesus was said to have gone through. The person who would bear the cross would stretch out his hands and have the crosspiece either tied across his back or under his chest.
Dionysius of Halicarnassus (first century B.C.) for instance says that "the men were ordered to lead the slave to his punishment, having stretched out both hands and fastened them to a piece of wood which extended across his breast and shoulders as far as his wrists, followed him, tearing his naked body with whips." Plautus (second century B.C.) described crucifixion as spreading out the hands and nailing them to the patibulum, and twice refers to the ritual of bearing the patibulum before crucifixion: "I shall bear the patibulum through the city; afterwards I shall be nailed to the cross....I bet the hangman will make you look like a human sieve, the way they'll prod you full of holes as they run you down the streets with your arms on a patibulum." Plutarch in his Moralia similarly said: "Every criminal that goes to execution must carry his own cross [stauros] on his back." Since there was no separate word in Greek for patibulum, the word stauros could refer either to the single crossbeam or the entire cross. Note that Plutarch describes the cross as on the criminal's back. John 21:18-19, which predicts Peter's martyrdom, also has Peter stretching out his hands before he is led off to his death. The traditional picture of Jesus carrying the whole cross over one of his shoulders at an angle is not consistent with the historical practice, which involved stretching out the hands and carrying the cross over the back or chest. This was done often because the stipes (vertical pole) was often kept stationary in place, and the criminal bound to the patibulum would then just be lifted up to the stipes after bearing it through the city.As far as I know, the earliest artistic depiction of Jesus carrying the cross over his shoulder was in the fifth century, long after crucifixion ended as a form of capital punishment.
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Using mythology to understand obscure passages
by peacefulpete inis 14:12-14 have stirred the imagination of xtians for hundreds od years.
lucifer the arrogant fallen angel.
poor translating and ignorance of canaanite mythology have concealed the point that the author was making.
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Leolaia
Peacefulpete....Thank you for reminding me of a very fascinating topic in the OT. I recall reading about this many years ago but for some reason, despite all my reading since then, I forgot all about this connection between Helel in Isaiah and the Ras Shamra texts.
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Why is this masonic type image linked to JW-Media website?
by Pleasuredome inof course most of us who have done any sort of reasearch on the matter will know that 'christianity' is just a cover for the sun religion.
not surprising therfore that the tetragramaton should be found in the sun on this pic.
but why is it linked to the wts's media site?
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Leolaia
Hmmmmm......"Risen with Christ"? I love that. It wasn't even 1918 yet! Doh!
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How long did it take you to stop being afraid of the demons?
by doodle-v inwe all know that the wts continous to spew nonsense about "satan and his hordes" and how they are always on the prowl trying to attack loyal dubs and stear them away from the troof.
my parents are hard core dub zealots still very much in the org.my mom will not hesitate to toss an inanimate object in the garbage if she suspects that it is "possesed".
so when you left, how long did it take you to shake the fear of them big bad deeeemunz?
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Leolaia
Anyone remember the days when DISCO RECORDS were thought to be demonized??
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The world's oldest song (1400 BC)!! midis!!
by Leolaia inthese are midis of songs from musical notation recorded in ancient texts.
it's nothing like what you can download and stuff your hard drive with, but it's interesting to hear what might have been performed thousands of years ago.
i like the first song a lot and the athenaios one is pretty creepy.
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Leolaia
Hey that would be awesome :). I'm a bit partial to the first one just because I've been listening to it since the '80s, but the second one is snappier and a bit less repititous sounding. I think I heard the same claim about one of the KM songs, but the one you described is definitely not the same psalm on the list.
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House of gold
by peacefulpete in2 sam 7 depicts david recieving direction to built yhwh a house.
in verse 7 yhwh says he has long wanted a house of cedars to dwell in but has not yet gotten one.
cedars are relevant as they were sacred trees associated with ashera and baal hadad.
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Leolaia
Yeah the historicity of David and Solomon is another huge matter. My personal opinion is that there was a temple during the Divided Monarchy (it would really surprise me if a state such as Judah did not have one in Iron II), and it could have originated as early as Iron I, but the grandiose descriptions in 2 Samuel are probably as fanciful as the descriptions of Camelot in medieval legend (and there DOES appear to have been a historical figure deep down at the core of the Arthur legend).
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Jesus' appearance before King Herod in early tradition
by Leolaia inluke is unique of the four gospels in depicting a trial scene between jesus and king herod.
the same account is also missing in the acts of pilate and other apocryphal gospels and is thus probably a lukan composition.
as crossan, koester, helms, and others have shown, the passion narratives are almost entirely constructed of material stitched together through ot exegesis.
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Leolaia
frankie....Thank you, indeed I like pursuing puzzles and seeing where certain lines of inquiry lead. I find historical and literary problems fascinating, especially ones that relate to the Bible, and there is just so much to study and research.... But you know, I have been spending too much time here (sorry), so you may see less posts of this type in coming weeks.
PP....You know, we definitely agree about a lot of things, but the Pauline issue is probably the main thing I don't agree with. I guess you're my Baur and I'm your Harnack.