And remember the news story about the woman who recognized a girl as her baby daughter that someone had snatched, on a chance meeting? Not really synchronicity, but a cool coincidence.
Leolaia
JoinedPosts by Leolaia
-
40
Carl Jung and the Collective Unconscious,,Myths and Archetypes.
by frankiespeakin in.
leolaia...recomended to me carl jung so i did a little search,,i find his theory of the collective unconscious fasinating here is a neat essay on the subject:.
http://lcc.ctc.edu/faculty/dmccarthy/engl204/seven-lecture.htm
-
-
-
40
Carl Jung and the Collective Unconscious,,Myths and Archetypes.
by frankiespeakin in.
leolaia...recomended to me carl jung so i did a little search,,i find his theory of the collective unconscious fasinating here is a neat essay on the subject:.
http://lcc.ctc.edu/faculty/dmccarthy/engl204/seven-lecture.htm
-
-
Leolaia
OldHippie....That is truly a remarkable story. It reminded me of something that happened to my parents not long after they first met when she was on a trip to his town. My dad had given my mom his phone number at a party, but she forgot it, and could only recall the first number. And he told her that no one could reach him because his phone was on a 12-member party line and so the line was always busy and other ppl always picked up. Well, when she was leaving at the bus depot, she called on a pay phone, randomly dialed the number and on the third ring he picked up, and said, "I was just thinking about you".
-
6
Necromancy and the god Wada'anu/Addu
by Leolaia inaccording to leviticus 20:27, "any man or woman who has a ghost ('wb) or who has a familiar spirit (yd'ny) will be put to death".
the law in deuteronomy 18:11 also commands the israelites to not "consult ghosts (ws'l 'wb) nor familiar spirits (wyd'ny), nor attempt to communicate with the dead (wdrs 'l-hmtym)".
in 1 samuel 28:7-13, the spirit medium of en-dor "consulted ghosts ('wb)".
-
-
Leolaia
According to Leviticus 20:27, "Any man or woman who has a ghost ('wb) or who has a familiar spirit (yd'ny) will be put to death". The law in Deuteronomy 18:11 also commands the Israelites to not "consult ghosts (ws'l 'wb) nor familiar spirits (wyd'ny), nor attempt to communicate with the dead (wdrs 'l-hmtym)". In 1 Samuel 28:7-13, the spirit medium of En-dor "consulted ghosts ('wb)". This condemnation of necromancy and divination attests to the popularity of ancestor worship in ancient Israel, as well as the general belief in the afterlife. The derivation of "Sheol" (s'wl) from a root meaning "ask" (s'l) also possibly relates to necromancy, particularly to the s'l 'wb "consulting the ghosts" practice of Deuteronomy 18:11. But what is the history of the critical words 'wb and yd'ny?
In Mishnaic Hebrew, they have already become terms for practices, thus one performs 'wb "communicating with the dead" or yd'ny "acting as a medium", and by extension can simply refer to the persons who perform these forbidden rituals. According to the Talmud, a human skull was used in the 'wb ritual (Sanhedrin 65b). The slippage between reference to the spirit and reference to the medium may have been enabled by the nature of the ritual itself, which involves possession by the ancestral spirit, so in a sense the medium becomes the spirit, or the spirit becomes the medium. Hebrew philologist S. R. Driver comments:
"From Lev. 20:27 ("a man or a woman, when there is in them an ob or a yidde'oni") it appears that an ob was considered to declare itself in the body of the person who had to do with it. Is. 29:4 shows further that the oracles of an ob were uttered in a twittering voice, which seemed to rise from the ground. The narrative of the witch of 'Endor shows (1 S. 28:8b, 11) that those who followed the art professed the power of calling up from the underworld the ghosts of the dead. The Syriac Peshitta renders by zakkuro, i.e. a ghost, speaking ostensibly either from the underworld, or from the stomach of the soothsayer. The LXX nearly always represents 'wb by hingastrimuthoi "ventriloquists". This rendering no doubt contains the true explanation of the operation of the 'wb: the b'lt 'wb "pretends to see a ghost which she describes, but her dupes only hear a voice which by ventriloquism seems to come from the ground". The 'wb may be fairly represented by the English ghost. In what respect the yidde'oni differed from the ob is uncertain. The word is usually understood to signify knower (i.e. wise spirit; Heb. yada' "to know"), but the yidde'oni may be not unreasonably understood of a "familiar" spirit, i.e. a spirit which is at the beck and call of a particular person (cf. Acts 16:14), and imparts to him its superior knowledge". (A Critical and Exegetical Commentary of Deuteronomy, p. 226)
The derivation of 'wb is uncertain but it is most likely cognate with Arabic awaba = aaba "a soul which returns (from the underworld)". As for yd'ny, a link with yd' "know" seems obvious; hence Driver's speculation above. But the discovery of the third-millenium B.C. Ebla archive has opened up a whole new possibility. West Semitic mythology of the Early and Middle Bronze Age had far more diverse pantheons than that of the Late Bronze Canaanite mythology from Ugarit, and the Iron Age mythology of Phoenicia and Israel. Some of these earlier gods merged together, disappeared entirely, or survived as the names of demons, angels, and spirits. Or epithets of certain deities may be hypostasized into new deities. Among the divine pairs in the Ebla pantheon, we find listed d Wa-da-'a-an wa d Si-la-shu lu Ga-ra-mu KI, or rather, "Wada'anu and Silashu of Garamu" (cf. ARET 3.540; TM.75.G.1764). Wada'anu is essentially the exact equivalent of Hebrew yd'ny, and he is paired with the goddess Silashu, who is spelled Sa-a-sa in another text, suggesting an underlying "Salasha" (the sign for Eblaite /a/ is often interchangeable with /la/, thus d A-a is spelled d A-la in ARET 3.464; ARET 3.232). Both names indicate an identification with the Akkadian goddess Shalash, the consort of Enlil/Ellil, Dagan, and Adad in Mesopotamia and Syria (e.g. the consort of Adad-Ramman was "Shala"). What makes this link especially interesting is that Adad/Addu (Syrian Hadad, the proper name for Baal) and Shamash, the sun-god, were very frequently involved in divination rites in Assyrian and Mari texts (they were called beli biri "lords of divination"). Shamash has chthonic aspects since his daily course takes him through the underworld, and being an astral deity his all-seeing gaze suits him well as a revealer of secrets. Baal/Hadad has a cyclic death into the underworld and rebirth, making him a revealer of death, and in Assyrian and Mari texts Adad/Addu was primary involved in omens of death as revealed through extispicy. If Salasha/Silashu is indeed the same goddess of Shalash, then a probable argument could be made that one of Hadad/Addu's epithets in the area of divination was the word for "knower" (wada'anu), and after Baal ceased to function as a god of divination, the epithet lived on to refer to other "revealers" involved in necromancy (the lesser spirits of the dead summoned by the medium). It is also curious that Sanhedrin 65b makes reference to b'l-'wb "Baal-Ob" as the form of divination involving the 'wb, and it has been noticed that every occurence of yd'ny in the OT pairs yd'ny with 'wb. Might this very late name of a necromancy practice preserve some memory of Baal being central to divination and necromancy? Of course, this does not touch at all on the problem of Resheph and Malik/Moloch/Rapiu/Rapha as the chief chthonic deities.
-
18
Jesus, name or title?
by peacefulpete induring period that the gospels were written jewish and samaritan apocalyptic sects revived the ot character joshua as the archetypical agent of salvation and conquerer of jewish enemies.
there in fact were groups that could rightly be called "joshua cults" that centered upon these apocalyptic anticipations and the character.
some would be liberators of the first century imaged themselves after the ot stories, reinacting the joshua story in some detail or promising to do so.
-
-
Leolaia
What do you think of the Sybilline Oracle text?
-
21
Why Did El Shaddai become Jehovah? Attention Leolaia
by jst2laws indear leolaia
from reading your research, which is wonderful, i'm confused about what moses was trying to say in exodus.
and god went on to speak to moses and to say to him: ?i am jehovah.
-
-
Leolaia
Interesting that "Yahweh" thought of himself as being the "husbandly owner" of the Jewish nation...
Just to take a guess, I think this arose as an alternative to the Asherah cult and the belief of Asherah as Yahweh's wife. Anti-Asherah polemic ran quite strong in the OT (cf. Isaiah 1:29-30, 17:8, 27:9; Jeremiah 17:2; Micah 5:13), and by making Israel the wife of Yahweh, there would be no possible role for Asherah as consort.
-
21
Why Did El Shaddai become Jehovah? Attention Leolaia
by jst2laws indear leolaia
from reading your research, which is wonderful, i'm confused about what moses was trying to say in exodus.
and god went on to speak to moses and to say to him: ?i am jehovah.
-
-
Leolaia
Baal became a son of El when he assumed his kingship, and copious evidence (presented many times in this forum) shows how Yahweh drew on Baal mythological motifs. See especially my post on the battle between Baal/Yahweh and the primeval Chaos monster, which survived into Christianity. When Yahweh ceased to function as a patron deity of Israel/Judah, due to the wholesale conflation of El and Yahweh through post-exilic monotheism, the Baal-type role formerly ascribed to Yahweh was filled by the guardian angel "prince" assigned to the nation (cf. Daniel), who grew to have Messianic connotations and the Messianic "Son of Man" figure was partly identified with Michael, the angelic "prince" of the Jews who will "stand up" (i.e. "begin to rule" as the term frequently means in the text) in Daniel 12:1-2. Thus, the battle of Chaos monster is attributed to Michael in Revelation 12. And we see how Baal motifs run through the Son of Man/Jesus traditions: Baal is the "Rider of the Clouds" and the Son of Man will be coming "on the clouds of heaven", Baal dies and is restored to life, just as Jesus is killed and raised to life, Baal rules as king over creation with El's permission as Jesus will do with the Father's blessing, and the father-son relationship is preserved.
-
21
Why Did El Shaddai become Jehovah? Attention Leolaia
by jst2laws indear leolaia
from reading your research, which is wonderful, i'm confused about what moses was trying to say in exodus.
and god went on to speak to moses and to say to him: ?i am jehovah.
-
-
Leolaia
There is no compelling evidence that the Priestly account in Exodus 6:3 is historical and should be regarded as a view held by Moses (whose historicity has also not been established). Note that the Priestly account conflicts with the Yahwist account which claims that Yahweh was known since the time of Enosh (Genesis 4:26) and used by the patriarchs (cf. Genesis 15:7-8; 28:13-22). The Deuteronomist also presents Moses as declaring Yahweh as one of the sons of Elyon (Deuteronomy 32:8-9), a view clearly older than the later monotheistic ideas of the exilic and post-exilic prophets. The Priestly tradition however preserves some knowledge that the primary god worshipped by the Israel was originally not Yahweh. As Mark Smith points out, the name of "Israel" is not a Yahwistic name but an El name, the cultic sites associated with the patriarchs (e.g. Beth-el, El-berith) are also El names, Genesis 49:24-25 in an archaic blessing poem lists a series of El epithets, etc. Regarding Exodus 6:3, Mark Smith writes:
"The priestly theological treatment of Israel's early religious history in Exodus 6:2-3 identifies the old god El Shadday with Yahweh. In this passage Yahweh appears to Moses: 'And God said to Moses, "I am Yahweh. I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, as El Shadday, but by my name Yahweh I did not make myself known to them" '. This passage reflects the fact that Yahweh was unknown to the patriarchs. Rather, they worshipped the Canaanite god El. Inscriptional texts from Deir 'Alla, a site noth of Jericho across the Jordan River, attest to the epithet Shadday....The author of Exodus 6:2-3 perhaps did not know of or make this distinction; rather, he identified Yahweh with the traditions of the great Canaanite god El". (The Early History of God, p. 34)
The conflation between El and Yahweh occurred rather early. The attestation of Asherah as a consort of Yahweh in pre-exilic inscriptions is direct evidence of this since in Canaanite mythology, Asherah is the wife of El. This fact also shows that the conflation was originally not due to monotheism. We can also note that, unlike the case of Yahweh and Baal, there are no biblical polemics against El, and El eventually became a generic word for "god", hence the expression 'l 'lhym yhwh "God of gods is Yahweh" (cf. Joshua 22:22; Psalm 10:12; 50:1). The depiction of Yahweh in Deuteronomy 32 is quite interesting because tho Yahweh is explicitly designated as a son of Elyon, he is described in language characteristic of El (cf. Deuteronomy 32:6-7). So before the outright identification of the two, there was a period when language of one was applied to the other without dissolving the distinction.
Note: I think you meant Canaanite instead of Chaldean.
-
18
Jesus, name or title?
by peacefulpete induring period that the gospels were written jewish and samaritan apocalyptic sects revived the ot character joshua as the archetypical agent of salvation and conquerer of jewish enemies.
there in fact were groups that could rightly be called "joshua cults" that centered upon these apocalyptic anticipations and the character.
some would be liberators of the first century imaged themselves after the ot stories, reinacting the joshua story in some detail or promising to do so.
-
-
Leolaia
It also gets back to the mysterious Simon Magus figure who, according to Justin Martyr (a native Samaritan) and Irenaeus, was baptised by John the Baptist as one of his disciples, who claimed to be a god descended from the Father "who appeared among the Jews as the Son," who also claimed to save men "through his grace" and who "had descended, transfigured, and assimilated to Powers and Principalities and angels, so that he might appear among men to be a man, while yet he was not a man, and that he was thought to have suffered in Judea, when he had not really suffered" (Irenaeus, Adversus Haereses 1.23.1-4).
Here is the text from the Sybilline Oracles:
"There will again be [i.e. in the eschatological future] one exceptional man from the sky
who stretched out his hands on the fruitful wood,
the best of the Hebrews, who will one day cause the sun to stand [i.e. like Joshua did],
speaking with fair speech and holy lips.
Blessed one, no longer weary your spirit in your breast,
divinely born, wealthy, sole-desired flower,
good light, holy shoot, beloved plant." (SibOr 5:156-162)Later we also read: "For a blessed man came from the expanses of heaven, with a scepter in his hands which God gave him, and he gained sway over all things well, and gave back the wealth to all the good, which previous men had taken. He destroyed every city from its foundations with much fire, and burned nations of mortals who were formerly evildoers" (SibOr 5:414-419). This Messiah figure, who restores the kingdom of Israel by destroying the cities and kingdoms of the Gentiles, is described very much in the language of Joshua, who in the conquest of Canaan also destroyed cities with fire and who also with God's power "caused the sun to stand still". So perhaps Jesus/Joshua is more of a name after all, especially in light of Zechariah and Samaritan material.
4 Ezra 7:28 is far less clear than the article makes it out to be; only in the Latin does "my son IHSEOS" appear; the Syriac, Arabic, and Ethiopic have "my Messiah," the Armenian has "the Messiah of God", the Georgian has "the elect my Messiah", and another Arabic translation has "the Messiah". The textual support for at least "Messiah" instead of "Jesus" seems to be quite strong and thus Bruce Metzger translates the text as "my son the Messiah".
-
6
Holy Spirit traditions
by peacefulpete inaccording to g.jon 7:39 there was as yet in the story no h.s.
dispite the other gospels claiming that the h.s.
was actively involved in miraculous births, drawing disciples, reavealing truths, prophesying, and miracles by the hand of his disciples.
-
-
Leolaia
Good point....so how is the term parakletos used in a theological context in pre-Christian literature (or is it used?)? I bet there is an article on this in the TDNT that covers this.
-
40
Carl Jung and the Collective Unconscious,,Myths and Archetypes.
by frankiespeakin in.
leolaia...recomended to me carl jung so i did a little search,,i find his theory of the collective unconscious fasinating here is a neat essay on the subject:.
http://lcc.ctc.edu/faculty/dmccarthy/engl204/seven-lecture.htm
-
-
Leolaia
The Jungian concept of archetypes is important for the cross-cultural study of religion and mythology; it helps explain why there are seemingly universal concepts or motifs in certain myths all over the world. Some of it could be epiphenominally rooted in the organization of the brain and mind, others relate to core constituents of human society (e.g. the parental relation between fathers and children), and others relate to near universal fears and problems (i.e. fears of floods, fires, wild animals, the unknown). Jung characterized it in terms of universal symbols, but this is semiotically questionable since in nearly all domains the link between the signifier and signified is subject to disruption and does not exist apart from context. In later work, Jung focused on "acausal coincidences" which are meaningful to their experiencers, but the notion of synchronicity reified the interpretive relationship between two meaningful events into an actual external relationship that the unconscious taps into. There is real "synchronicity" in quantum events which have been scientifically established, but the psychological synchronicity of Jung seems to take this notion too far. On the other hand, much of the processing in the neurons and synapses of the brain does occur pretty close to the quantum level (or so it seems), so who knows, but most of apparent synchronicity appears to just be a combination of constructing meaning through interpretation and ordinary plain statistical chance which guarantees the not-too-infrequent occurrence of "remarkable" coincidences.
Anyway, I think it would be great if people could mention in this thread some of the most weird examples of synchronicity from their own lives. Toward the end of my Sophomore year of high school, I talked to my friend Jimmy (who was moving to Nevada) about my upcoming trip to California and how I looked forward to going to Disneyland. Then, when I'm at Disneyland, whom should I bump into but ... JIMMY. And this was after he had moved away and I thought I would never see him again.