If the rumor is true, the publications can now just say "the FDS" when referring to the GB instead of saying in a roundabout fashion "the faithful and discreet slave class of which the GB forms a part". It's a Simplification.™
Leolaia
JoinedPosts by Leolaia
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22
Help please, The original letters on both sides of rutherford taking over by force, and court documents/etc of the real reason he was jailed
by EndofMysteries inanybody know offhand where i can download those?
part of my project :) i think he just printed in the golden globe or something about the takeover, if so i have access to that.
but unsure where to get the pamphlet the brothers unjustly kicked out had published.
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Leolaia
Rutherford and others at Bethel told drafted Bible Students at boot camps to disobey orders. That was part of it.
The problem was that Russell refused to adopt any sort of creed, or to have his group registered as a sect or religion. He believed that Christians should not organize into earthly organizations with visible "heads" (as he said, the membership list is in heaven). So what that meant was that there was no religion that the conscripts could say they were a member of. The Watchtower Bible & Tract Society was just a book publishing company. A person selling its books wasn't a member of it. So that made it harder for a conscript to show to the draft boards that he belonged to a pacifist religious group like the Quakers.
And Rutherford told the conscripts that they must refuse even peaceful alternative service.
They also were never "exonerated" of the charges like the Society likes to claim today. They got the verdirct set aside on appeal over a procedural matter.
The judge got pissed off at a witness (a secretary) who refused to identify that a stamp from Bethel that she used every day, which bore Rutherford's name, was in fact the stamp she used. Things like that. There was the claim made, I think, that the judge was biased against the Bible Students on account of his religious background. I don't know what the truth is about that.
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Help please, The original letters on both sides of rutherford taking over by force, and court documents/etc of the real reason he was jailed
by EndofMysteries inanybody know offhand where i can download those?
part of my project :) i think he just printed in the golden globe or something about the takeover, if so i have access to that.
but unsure where to get the pamphlet the brothers unjustly kicked out had published.
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Leolaia
There used to be a website that had original ones, pastor-russell.com, I think it was. Maybe Atlantis has them, or has posted them.
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Overlapping Generation, Overlapping Instruction
by jgnat insomeone pointed out that it might be handy to compare current teaching on the generations, properly cited.
i'm going to quote two sources; the watchtower magazine of april 2010 and "reasoning from the scriptures" published 1989. a witness to remain in good standing must follow current teachings.. from the reasoning book:.
definition: the bible uses the expression last days to refer to the concluding time period leading up to a divinely appointed execution that marks the end of a system of things.
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Leolaia
It would also be good to keep in mind just how dogmatic the Society used to be with the 1914 generation teaching:
"True, there have been those in times past who predicted an 'end to the world,' even announcing a specific date. Some have gathered groups of people with them and fled to the hills or withdrawn into their houses waiting for the end. Yet, nothing happened. The 'end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing? Missing was the full measure of evidence required in fulfillment of Bible prophecy. Missing from such people were God's truths and the evidence that he was guiding and using them. But what about today? Today we have the evidence required, all of it [italics theirs]. And it is overwhelming! All the many, many parts of the great sign of the 'last days' are here, together with verifying Bible chronology....Would you still doubt if someone told you that winter was coming very soon? Would you say he was just guessing or merely expressing his own idea? Or would you acknowledge, on the basis of solid evidence, that he knew the facts and was telling you the truth? .... We today have all [italics theirs] the many parts of that sign, nearly forty of them, being fulfilled within the same generation, and we have God's timetable, his 'calendar,' showing that the time has nearly run out for the present unrighteous system of things. This is very different indeed from the situation with whose who proclaimed an 'end to the world' in earlier generations" (Awake!, 10/8/1968, pp. 23-24).
"If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact [definite statement] that you will never grow old [definite expectation] in this present system of things. Why not? Because all the evidence in fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt system is due to end in a few years. Of the generation that observed the beginning of the "last days" in 1914, Jesus foretold: "This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur".... Therefore, as a young person, you will never fulfill any career [definite expectation] that this system offers. If you are in high school and thinking about a college education, it means at least four, perhaps even six or eight more years to graduate into a specialized career. But where will this system of things be by that time? It will [definite expectation] be well on the way toward its finish, if not actually gone!" (Awake!, 5/22/1969, p. 15).
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Leolaia
Then they spent an hour explaining how the faithful and discreet slave is no longer all anointed people but just the GB as a unit.
Wow, FINALLY they tackled that one....they're been using "F&DS class" as a proxy for the actual religious leadership (whether the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society or the GB) ever since Rutherford tried to get Bible Students to stop thinking of Russell as the "faithful and wise servant" by generalizing this figure to the entire anointed class. Everyone knows it really refers to the GB....I remember thinking in the '80s it was lame to hold that it refers to the anointed as a whole in theory.
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Help please, The original letters on both sides of rutherford taking over by force, and court documents/etc of the real reason he was jailed
by EndofMysteries inanybody know offhand where i can download those?
part of my project :) i think he just printed in the golden globe or something about the takeover, if so i have access to that.
but unsure where to get the pamphlet the brothers unjustly kicked out had published.
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Leolaia
http://archive.org/details/RutherfordVTheUnitedStatesTrial
http://www.biblestudents.net/history/ (scroll down to "presidency papers")
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Leolaia
What's the news from the meeting? Did holy spirit come down from heaven and flow through the F&DS and everyone in the room started speaking in tongues?
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Jason BeDuhn regarding Revelation 7 and the Great Crowd
by Sauerkraut ina while ago i sent an e-mail to jason beduhn, that the society is quite fond of.
they like to quote him in publications.
so when i started researching the great crowd and the accuracy of the earthly hope doctrine i thought i might write him and ask him what the exact meaning of "before the throne" (revelation 7:9) and "temple" (7:15) is.
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Leolaia
I have to say that I was pretty disappointed with the book. I found it rather subjective the way he compared the NWT vis-a-vis other translations. The determination of bias was dependent on his opinion of how certain texts, particularly very controversial ones, ought to be understood. He has an informed opinion, but there are other informed opinions on these texts, and I found the discussion often somewhat superficial. There is room for disagreement across scholarship wrt many of these controversial passages, and I just don't think any one scholar's exegetical opinion is the most reliable standard for assessing bias. Arguing whether a rendering is defensible is not necessarily the same thing as showing the extent to which it reflects a theological bias.
I think a much better, more objective, approach is to examine how the NWT's translation choices can be traced to preferred readings already adopted by the Society and attested in the literature for some time prior to the translation work. What I have noticed time and time again is that in places where the NWT takes a controversial or uncommon rendering in a given passage, if you look at the pre-NWT literature of the Watchtower Society (such as in publications of the Rutherford era), you will often find that the Society has already used a rendering or an interpretive tradition that anticipates what is later found in the NWT. That means that the NWT translators did not approach their project without already established interpretive traditions towards various passages in the Bible. The translation choices made in the NWT thus reflect particular beliefs and interpretations already adopted by the Watchtower Society; they represent a theological Tendenz peculiar to Jehovah's Witnesses. This would be akin to examining how the LXX adopts translation choices that reflect Hellenistic thought.
I personally believe that this type of analysis would elucidate the very purpose of the translation. Prior to 1950, Jehovah's Witnesses used a very eclectic range of translations to support the Watchtower Society's interpretation of the Bible. The field ministry however required (in terms of practicality) the use of just one main translation, the ASV, and it disagreed with JW doctrine on many points. So it was advantageous to develop a translation that agreed fully with JW doctrine as it existed in 1950. It was a translation that consolidated the favorite readings of controversial passages into a single text. My approach thus would have another implication: Since JW doctrine has changed since 1950 (or since 1961 when the NWT was complete), the original edition of the NWT would have a poorer fit with present-day JW doctrine than it had with the intellectual climate at the time it was produced. Indeed the NWT has been revised a number of times since the fifties, and I think the changes reflect not better knowledge of the text through manuscript discoveries (the NWT has not been revised according to a more current critical text than the outdated W&H) but occasionally doctrinal changes that occurred in the organization since 1950. So I think a good case for bias can potentially be made from both ends, from looking at literature prior to the 1950s and also by looking at the literature published after that time.
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Rutherford's smear campaign (a must read)
by Leolaia inthere has been some interest recently about the moyle case, and how it may have set a precident in what became the society's disfellowshipping policy.
in july 1939, the chief legal counsel of the watchtower bible & tract society, olin r. moyle, resigned from his position in a protest over conditions at bethel and rutherford's mistreatment of workers.
he did not want to continue living under those conditions and he felt he could effect positive change for his brothers by taking such a stand.
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Leolaia
More details about shunning, as related by the Moyles:
#39
PHOEBE MOYLE
Q. And do you recall the article "Information" that was published in the "Watch Tower" on October 15th? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you notice any change of attitude on the part of the classes in Wisconsin that you attended toward you and Mr. Moyle? A. Yes, sir. Our one-time friends were no longer friends. Q. And there were a number of people in those classes, were there not? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did they avoid you and your husband? A. Yes, sir....Yes, a decided — well, they just had nothing to do with us and did not speak to us on the street or in the meeting places.#40
OLIN R. MOYLE
Q. Do you recall reading the article in the "Watch Tower of September 1st? A. Yes, I do. Q. And what transpired, if anything, after that? A. After September 1st there was a change in attitude. We were welcomed very warmly by friends among Jehovah's Witnesses in Milwaukee when we returned, and after that date things began to change. First it was only a coolness on the part of a few, which grew in extent until there was an antagonistic attitude by the major portion of them. As we would go into the meetings there would be an area around us where we sat where nobody else would be sitting. Sometimes it would happen if somebody was sitting where we would, that person would get up and go elsewhere, and that is an attitude which continued on all the time we were there. Q. Do you recall Mr. Howlett coming out there and holding a meeting on about September 24th? A. Yes, sir....to the best of my recollection, that attitude of shunning us and avoiding us continued to grow from there on....Q. And then did anything happen with reference to your carrying on in Wauwatosa [Milwaukee]? A. You mean as to my legal practice? Q. Yes. A. Yes, sir. I stayed there, in Wauwatosa, for a little better than a year. I had some good practice in the beginning. It came in fairly good, I might say, and then the situation arose that there was very little coming in and I had to move. Q. Did you notice any unfriendliness on the part of Jehovah's Witnesses there? A. Yes, sir, I did. Q. Did that have anything to do with your change of residence or office? A. That did. If I may explain. Most of the friends I had in that area prior to going there were among Jehovah's Witnesses, and the most acquaintances and friends in Milwaukee were among those. So that I thought that the friendliness which was there would be helpful in making a living and building up a practice. But when that attitude of shunning and avoiding me arose, that hope died away.
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Jwfacts-- More Lies But This Time About The Great Crowd
by Recovery injwfacts has an article that explains why the great crowd must be in heaven.
i am also aware that many of these are the same arguments that stemmed from the 'awakenings at bethel' so my statements are not simply attacks of jwfact's character (since these arguments are probably not original) but rather his copy and paste of what others have said instead of verifying it as 'fact' for himself.. so here are jwfacts arguments:.
1. he shows that russell and rutherford (at some point) believed that the great crowd were in heaven.. 2. each term that describes the great crowd of revelation 7 is else used to described the anointed by the wt.
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Leolaia
Maybe, I'll check it out. I think I might have said something there some days ago.
BTW, I think in English too "will" can be used in a similar way. One could say "Obama will be president in 2013", meaning that he will win the November election, without implying that he isn't president right now. And saying "I predict that gas prices will go up" doesn't imply that they haven't already been rising....it means they won't stay the same or go down.