Posts by Leolaia

67

I did NOT survive 12-21-2012. If you did NOT survive. Please check in here.

by FlyingHighNow in

please tell me i am not the only person who did not survive yesterday..

Leolaia

How come I can't see Nibiru yet?!?!?!??! Where is it?!?! WHERE IS IT?!!!

92

this might be an unfair question for those who have been out of the organization for decades, but i'm wondering if any of you remember your earliest doubt -- maybe something odd that occurred to you as a kid (if you were a jw then).

please try to limit to two doubts at the most :-).

i think my first "doubt" was simply realizing that at the time of the flood, every animal that wasn't in the ark died (well, besides the fish, supposedly).

Leolaia

I was 8 or 9. We were at the book study, studying the Life book. I couldn't understand how death is nonexistence and resurrection is a copy from God's memory like a film. There was a drawing in the book of a projector playing a film onto a screen. It seemed obvious to me that a projected image is not the same thing as the original object. I asked for clarification. I said that this doesn't make sense. I wasn't satisfied with the answer either. I then was told I would understand it better when I got older. That never happened, I realized that this teaching didn't make sense. Resurrection would be like somebody else living my life who thinks she is me and who was given my memories, but I'm still dead because I no longer exist. Didn't sound like much of a hope to me.

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If JW Missionaries Were Abducted By Terrorists How Would The Watchtower Society Handle It?

by minimus in

jw
friends

what do you think?.

Leolaia

Thousands were abducted by terrorists at one time. Those terrorists were called Nazis. And they weren't regarded as superior authorities either at the time.

45

Why don't established religions care about Ron Wyatt's archaelogical findings confirming the Bible?

by Kosonen in

why don't established religions care about ron wyatt's archaelogical findings confirming the bible?

what does that reveal about them?

have you any idea?.

Leolaia

Because most people have a working bullshit detector, that's my guess. Particularly those who follow established scientific methodology.

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1AM UK 21.12.2012... world not ended here

by BroMac in

jw
friends

err well unless i'm the only one left .

Leolaia

So why isn't Nibiru visible nowwwww???

18

Matthew 10:23

by pixel in

"23when they persecute ?you?

in one city, flee to another; for truly i say to ?you, you?

will by no means complete the circuit of the cities of israel until the son of man arrives.".

Leolaia

John....No, I'm not the debating type. I'm more discussion oriented. I'll mention later on if you wish the problem I find with preterism (which does do justice in part with early Jewish/Christian eschatological expectation), but I'm off in a few minutes to see the Hobbit.

PSacramento....Gotta run, but its not the epiphanic motifs so much (whether literal or figurative) but the nature of the event.

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Matthew 10:23

by pixel in

"23when they persecute ?you?

in one city, flee to another; for truly i say to ?you, you?

will by no means complete the circuit of the cities of israel until the son of man arrives.".

Leolaia

The "Son of Man" event expected in the synoptic gospels and the Book of Parables does not correspond to what occurred in AD 70. In fact, this is probably why the gospel of Matthew, written later than Mark, revises the Olivet discourse to distinguish the parousia from the destruction of the Temple and to emphasize a theme of apparent delay in the fulfillment of "all these things", as Christians were still waiting for them to be fulfilled for quite some time after AD 70.

24

Evidence regarding Daniel 11 & Antiochus IV

by Bobcat in

i was doing research on daniel 8 and 11. what i was wondering was if there was any evidence that the jews saw daniel 8 and 11 fulfilled in antiochus iv.. the explained fulfillments (re: antiochus; non-wt explanations) make a lot of sense, but what specifically i was wondering was if the jews (after the time of antiochus iv) saw the daniel prophecies as being fulfilled in him?

or if there are any threads that discuss this, a link would be appreciated.. thank you in advance.. take care.

Leolaia

Since you doubt that the author of 1 Maccabees used Daniel as a source regarding the death of Antiochus, do you think that the use of "desolating sacrilege" (so NRSV), so similar to the wording of Daniel 9:27 and 11:31, is also independent of Daniel?

Well, 1 Maccabees was definitely familiar with Daniel, alluding to the stories in ch. 3 and 6. So the reference to the "abomination of desolation" in ch. 1 could also be an allusion. Or it could have had a Sitz im Leben in actual Jewish usage at the time of the events. There is no way to know for certain which possibility it is.

If not, since the death of Antiochus is, as you say, "clearly fictional" as reported in 1 Maccabees, why not say that Antiochus died in Palestine to bring the account in line with Daniel?

I think the account in 1 Maccabees is more historical than the one in 2 Maccabees, and the author was writing more or less straight history. I don't think such an author would have been inclined to alter an apparently well-known historical fact as the location of Antiochus' death, especially putting it in Palestine itself where Jews would have known full well that Antiochus never went to the Holy Land after the Temple was restored. And as mentioned above, I don't think the author of 2 Maccabees would have gone that far as well. The timing of Antiochus' death, on the other hand, was a much murkier fact, and there is confusion between the two histories on when it happened in the sequence of events.

Is there anything grammatically in the Hebrew that requires that Palestine be understood as the place of Antiochus's death in Daniel 11:45b just because that's where 45a says that's where he "pitch[ed] his palatial tents" (NRSV)? I know that most mainstream commentators say that Palestine is predicted in Daniel 11 as the place of Antiochus's death, but I don't see that the text requires that. What am I missing?

I think its very strongly implied. While in Egypt (v. 43), he hears reports from the northeast that greatly alarm him and he sets forth there in a great rage (v. 44). He pitches his tents in Palestine at the holy mountain (v. 45a). Then he dies (v. 45b). There is no siege or attack mentioned, he just dies. The reader expects a repeat of the second Egyptian campaign mentioned a few verses earlier: Antiochus withdraws from Egypt in a great rage (v. 30), he besieges Jerusalem (v. 31a), and the Temple is defiled (v. 31b). But he dies before this could happen again.

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