so much talk of destruction, adverse judgement and the biga etc.... .
but the bible clearly talks of destruction of "god's" enemies right?
it can't be that many.
I would concur that most people simply do not have the capacity to rebel - either in spirit or in fact. Very few are born as powerful as Nimrod, for instance, or have the social standing and religious education of the Pharisees.
That's why I'm a Calvinist. Most will be saved whether they think they chose to be or not. Do the lambs have any choice but to go along with the shepherd when he finds them? Do crops have any choice about growing when planted correctly?
CZAR
the watchtower society regularly talks about how jehovah's witnesses are unique.
so unique----they alone enjoy a "spiritual paradise".
while you were a witness, were you ever in "spiritual paradise"??
Yes. But those girls got me disfellowshipped - har har har...
Seriously, that was the closest I got to anything resembling a meaningful happiness. Sad, really.
CZAR
http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/05/breaking2453389.0680555557.html
media's coverage has distorted world's view of iraqi reality .
by ltc tim ryanspecial to world tribune.com.
If you believe America is the bad guy, then you must believe that Tim McVeigh was the good guy.
CZAR
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4180087.stm#
.
as if the ayatollahs weren't paranoid enough?
CZAR "you knew it was coming" klass
i'm leaving this forum...at least temporarily.
as i mentioned in conversation over dinner at the chicago apostafest, my upcoming school schedule (which begins next week) combined with my workload will make it very difficult to be an active member on this forum.
perhaps i'll check in occassionaly when life is a little slower but for now i'd better distance myself from the on-line scene or else the other elements in my life will suffer.
Aw, logan. I thought you were staying to talk to me!
LOL! Good luck, buddy. Have fun at school, and work on nailing those honeys you are always drooling about!
CZAR
a family of four was found in their nj home with their throats cut.
the family made up of the man and wife included two young daughters.
there are strong implications that this family was murdered over fanatical religious "disagrements" with an individual/individuals that the father had been comunicating with on an internet chat room.
I say head to the caves...I've got canned food...what do you guys have?
Oh, now the bomb shelter seems like a good idea, huh?
CZAR
thank goodness, a judge with some sense!.
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2005/01/13/national1134est0530.dtl.
here's a quote:but the judge disagreed: "while evolution is subject to criticism, particularly with respect to the mechanism by which it occurred, the sticker misleads students regarding the significance and value of evolution in the scientific community.
Alan, I only respond to 20 percent of your argument because the other 80 percent is bunk, repetition, and prejudice. However, 1 out of 5 comments being somewhat meaningful isn't too bad, ace. Keep on swinging. Try some "clear" it'll help those old arms connect a little more. Now you've wandered off the path of what actually "is" and are striking at what you imagine must be. This sticker doesn't exist in a vacuum. Correct. It is in an atmosphere of a lot of hot air.
You're arguments are very mixed up, czar.
So is your syntax.
As a non sequitur, it certainly promotes skepticism. But it also promotes creationism, via mechanisms I've taken pains to explain to you in detail, and with which the judge concurs.
This judge. There will be others. The argument is one that was tried back in the 40's, like I said, and it failed then. It will not hold up in higher courts. It relies on an extremely liberal (in the sense of taking liberties) interpretation of both the sticker and the Constitution, as has been pointed out.
Let's cut to the chase: You don't like the sticker, although you admit that it is in and of itself innocuous. You see the threatened "Wedge" in the words that merely urge deeper thought about what is being presented inside the textbook. A similar argument could be that the words of certain Black Panther leaders mean that no anti-segregation movementcan be allowed on the grounds that it would cause a "breach of the peace."
Is the sticker unconstitutional? No. It does not represent a government endorsement of any religious viewpoint. If you say that it does between the lines, then federally funding textbooks that teach wrong evolutionary theories (like the ones I learned in high school) could be shot down for promoting what essentially amounted to a religious idea. (Which seems to be anything outside current scientific orthodoxy, at least in your viewpoint.)
A side note: A sticker like that might have sparked my curiousity about the debate a little more and led me to do more research as a teenager, instead of seeing the Miller experiment being vaunted as proof of abiogenesis while knowing it to be largely discounted at the same time! That is why the sticker needs to be there, because the textbooks written cannot be relied upon to be the final word about anything, especially a science as young as evolutionary science.
There are laws against making statements like that in certain circumstances. There's also common sense involved. Why do you think police go to some lengths to prevent a group of skinheads from getting too close to a political rally in support of racial equality?
While you are correct in that skinheads are kept away from racial equality rallies, this is for "Clear and present danger" reasons (they having a stated violent agenda, and a history of acting on it) and NOT in a context devoid of circumstances likely to cause a breach of the peace. (ie. a sticker on a textbook in a classroom) The government's job is not to be the final arbiter of truth. It is to keep the civil order.
How is the fact that gravity holds Titan in orbit political?
How is the fact that the Huygens craft landed on Titan political?
How is the field of orbital mechanics political?
How is the observation of massive changes in life over billions of years political?
Have you read Machiavelli? Everything that has political, social, or even imagined consequences is a political entity in its own right, creating a "weight" that draws some and repels others. It's as real as gravity.
Speaking of which:
The gravity that holds Titan in orbit is part of the playing field of this universe. Knowing how it works can also be utilized to create a missile that can destroy people from across the planet. That's a political effect of gravity, just one for starters. Being a constant, it is something that people rely upon without thinking about. Half of maintaining any order is the result of people taking most of it for granted. Wake up, go to work, pay your taxes. As long as the gravity's working, they don't even think about it! And that is a blessing for everyone, really.
The Huygens spacecraft was the result of a collaboration between three different politically funded agencies. NASA is the premier American effort, recently revitalized, and this success is a material result that can be pointed to by our President. This creates a political capital that can be spent on future scientific research and efforts. Another political result is the close collaboration between the European Space Agency (the EU flexing its newfound muscles) and the Italians - creating things together results in a feeling of a tighter knit community in a continent trying to make this Union idea work. As Churchill said, "We must create a United States of Europe." Well, this is a tangible result of that political effort. The Europeans will gain confidence in their newfound government, the Americans will possibly sense a new rival / partner. The Chinese, could they be jealous much?
Orbital mechanics? When most of our intelligence is gathered by satellite? When the expense of a new satellite is justified by advances in understanding? Good lord, how would you ever pay for your precious toys if you couldn't justify it politically? When the first nation to correctly apply orbital mechanics created a surge in scientific advancement that we are just now beginning to apprehend? The political effect of Sputnik is the kindling on which our current light of knowledge burns! I mean, we owe the creation of Tang to orbital mechanics. Tang, man! Tang! Have you no soul? (I'm being silly, but the political effects of orbital mechanics are far reaching - as well as the political origins of our current understanding of orbital mechanics. Without the political fallout, orbital mechanics would be a curiousity experimented upon in basements and empty fields by people who never applied what they learned.)
The observations of changing life over millions of years. Hm. How could the dissolution of religious fundamentalism be a political entity? Are you being serious? If it affects people, it is political. If it affects legislation, court cases, Constitutional interpretations, it is a political "weight". And you guys are not playing the game very well, like thus:
1.) You cannot prove that the sticker is untrue. "between the lines" arguments fall under the "presumed likelihood" rationale that was struck down in the forties and must be abandoned if you wish to win.
2.) You cannot prove that the sticker is an endorsement of religion. "Potential motive" will never hold up in court - it would open up a huge can of worms that could easily cut either way. And the current Supreme Court isn't in your favor anyway.
A more elegant strategy would be a competing sticker that rebuts the contents of the first sticker. It would tend to swing the debate into the arena that favors your side: science and reason. And the promoters of the first sticker could not repudiate its presence without creating political fallout that would undermine their side in court!
Play to win, Alan.
CZAR
the classic for me was several years ago.
angharad had just left to go out but came back after a few minutes with a very sheepish / worried look on her face.. "i hit something with the car" she whimpered.. "argh ...
" says i, thinking the worse (ie.
When my wife and I play video games together, she can really cuss me out. Being that I am naturally better at everything than her she often resorts to mere vituperation.
One day when she was... erm.. I was LETTING her win... she had the bad manners to turn and shriek (in a room full of friends, mind you) "Take it like a bitch!"
And then when I was winning, she shrieked, "You suck d*** for bus fare then walk home!"
How can you NOT be in love with somebody like that?
CZAR
i was the "bad association" for the young hero of that riveting tale.
all i could think of was the drama ending, going to lunch and sucking down a couple of muff'n'eggs followed by a danish, washed down with some shasta, and a pudding cup.
i just prayed my mom would rashion me out enough food-tickets to handle the job.
I had a crowd bit part in the Aachan drama.
Got my first taste of being on stage; it was distinctly a heady moment. I guess it was all downhill from there; eh?
BTW: Haven't the dramas really gone downhill lately? I mean, they are all modernday no costumes, no executions, no miraculous special effects. I mean, they were more effective teaching tools when people actually paid attention. Does somebody at Bethel just want the whole of dubdom to get bored and go away?
CZAR
comments you will not hear at the 01 16 05 wt study (december 1, 2004)
review comments
will be in black and parentheses ().
I have noticed that gay people, who are conflicted about their role and their sexuality, often drink and use drugs. I guess that's true of everyone that is conflicted, but to be a gay JW would be horrible.
So maybe when a couple of gay Bethelites get drunk and make out; perhaps there has been a small epidemic of NPG's suddenly bolting for the door... or something... anyway, maybe that's why there is a mention of the homosexuality thing...
CZAR
