i would have to say my favorite moment is when bart goes to the comic book store and has this conversation with comic book guy:.
(bart lays $8 on the table).
bart: "can i have this comic book here?".
When Bart writes something on the back of Homer's head and Homer literally runs around in circles until he falls over like a breakdancer trying to read the back of his own head.
Joey joe joe junior... shabbadoo
That's the worst name I've ever heard.
CZAR
hundreds pay tribute to jehovah teen who fought against blood.
transfusions.. by licia corbella, editor.
do not mourn me for i'm not dead.. i lay asleep upon this bed.
Farkel,
I'm glad to see that the organization has wrought no permanent harm to your self esteem.
Here is how your first message was incoherent :
: I know that the blood thing is probably wrong, and she died for a false belief, but at least she thought she knew what she wanted. We should be so lucky.
I know that the Jewish thing is probably wrong, and he died for a false belief, but at least he thought he knew what he wanted. We should be so lucky. - Adolf Hitler apologist using your own argument
It simply wasn't clear who you were comparing to Hitler. Thank you for not calling me Hitler, but merely calling me an:
Idiot.
All righty, then, what's next? My argument wasn't specious. I think your personal resentment at the organization has spilled over into resentment at ANYONE who doesn't oppose them at every turn.
So leave the boogeyman of Hitler in the closet until you can really use him, huh?
Oh, and, here's a laugh:
: The Jews had no choice under Hitler.
Nonsense. The Jews had lots of choices. Einstein left Germany in 1933, for example. Bethany could have left the Cult before she died, too. She didn't and died. Too many Jews didn't and died.
So the Jews should have just uprooted all their possessions and belongings during the Great Depression and fled the only home they've ever known? Maybe. But people aren't likely to do that. Anyway, that's not the point - the point is they made their choice! Are you going to call the Jews of Europe pathetic for not fleeing Germany? That's the same as calling Bethany pathetic for not leaving the super-cult while she lay on her deathbed! Who the hell is going to abandon their basic religion while they are dying?
Yes, the blood policy is wrong, and yes, Bethany could have easily taken a transfusion and lived. No, her father should have never been denied access. The Watchtower and the GB will rot in hell, if there is one. But she had the right to make her choice and we should respect that.
Now, sixofnine:
As far as you're statement "Now, this girl had a set of beliefs that hurt nobody but herself -", that is just beyond the pale. I'm sure you can look at that and see how ridiculous it is.
I was contrasting her faith to the faith of, say, a fanatic who flies an airplane into a building. Her faith was suicidal and hurt her family deeply, but at least it didn't kill a whole bunch of other people. Part of living in a free society is being willing to let other people make bad choices. I really really wish she hadn't made it, but she did.
Perhaps working around death has perverted your vision. Or perhaps belief in an afterlife has perverted your vision. How sad if so, since you know nothing of an afterlife, you can only speculate. You do however, know alot about what a 17 year old girl can do with her life is she is allowed to live it.
You're right. I can only speculate about an afterlife. But Bethany wasn't DENIED her life, she denied it to herself. She had the right to do that, for whatever reason. Working around death hasn't perverted my vision, it has cleared it. I have no illusions about our physical destinies. We all die, and most of us do it horribly, gasping for breath, choking on vomit, or drowning in snot, bleeding out of every orifice, or burning alive with fever. Most of the time, only strangers are there when we go.
Speculating about an afterlife is what I do at about 3 in the morning.
Anyway, the whole summup of the argument that I was trying to make when all this started was:
Don't call it pathetic. That implies disdain for her bravery. All I wanted was to pay tribute to Bethany's courage, misguided in application as it may be.
Anyway, the word was applied in a different manner than I thought, at first, so that's that.
CZAR
Edited by - czarofmischief on 24 October 2002 21:32:19
im wracking my brain trying to remember the name of a singer who was on oprah and i believe either sang at christmas or around the 9/11 programs she had on.
he was hispanic...had a gorgeous tenor voice.
i wanna say like george lopez, or martinez or rodriguez....urrrgh...anybody help me on this?
Ricky Martin
CZAR
my sister who is still a jw called me today and was talking to me about my "situation".
i said to her that i am studing, doing research and trying to find my way and what i believe.. i said how mum said is pleading for me to go back to the meetings and i said to my sister that i cannot make up my own mind if i am at the meetings.
her reply was "the only way you can is at the meetings because that is where you get holy spirit from.".
Hey Kelpie,
I like your name, first of all.
I was diffed two years ago, and I spent a long time in despair. But guess what. Once the grieving over losing your entire social structure passes, then you can build an exciting new life! It's fun! and it's what god wants you to do!
What you need to do is pray. Read about the history of this super-cult, and how they have always scared their followers and kept them at a fever pitch through predictions which never came true, or vaguely threatening statements like, "The vultures are coming, the vultures are coming." This site is a great place to study.
Eventually, you will find God, however he reveals himself to you, and you will realize that these JW's are the most misled, self-loathing, pitiable people on earth. Next to white liberals, of course.
CZAR
hundreds pay tribute to jehovah teen who fought against blood.
transfusions.. by licia corbella, editor.
do not mourn me for i'm not dead.. i lay asleep upon this bed.
Ok, Farkel.
Your sentences are incoherent, you stooped to name calling, and you compared me to Hitler. Who's the one acting like an idiot?
You totally missed the point of my argument. What I am saying is that Bethany should have been, and was, allowed to make her own choice based on the information she had. I'm not defending her death, but rather her right to make a choice and not have it demeaned as "pathetic".
The Jews had no choice under Hitler.
Have another drink.
CZAR
the other night i was upset and decided to pray to god.
i was outside looking at the stars and wondering if i was talking to myself or if he is really out there somewhere.. as i prayed i didnt know who to address, i have said jehovah, jesus, father, who ever is out there please hear me.
i don' t mean to be disrespectful in saying it that way , but just confused.. many of you know we havent been to a meeting in over a year .
I call him Jehovah. Mostly because he answers by that name.
Pan? Isis? Those gods are deader than dead!
Although I do appreciate a good Dionysian revel every now and then. Wanna get all freaky and nature luvvin' with me, Ravyn and Sirona? New Age and free love, yeah yeah yeah!
CZAR
he'd say,
"Oh did I say I was coming quickly? I meant quickly in the sense of a thousand years being but as one day to us godlike ones. Sorry about the mixup. Be back next week..."
CZAR
hundreds pay tribute to jehovah teen who fought against blood.
transfusions.. by licia corbella, editor.
do not mourn me for i'm not dead.. i lay asleep upon this bed.
6of9
I work in a hospital. I take care of my people, but some die and some live. And that's the way it goes. All of us WILL die. Now, this girl had a set of beliefs that hurt nobody but herself - and she chose to live by them and to die by them. I respect that. Even if she was young, she was still old enough to make her own decision.
I have to agree that tearing the two apart was pathetic, and that she was denied access to basic information that could have changed her viewpoint, but let's be reasonable. It is highly unlikely that she could have gotten blood without undergoing a HUGE spiritual / guilt complex over doing so. Our own escapes from the super-cult took long, often violent, changes in character, and that all requires TIME. Could an orthodox Jew suddenly be expected to eat pork, even if his life depended on it, without perhaps getting ill or undergoing a huge spiritual crisis? Probably not. Neither could Bethany have gotten blood, or even decided to do so, without undergoing a similar huge shift in her basic psychic foundation. And I don't know if she could have handled something like that at her stage of illness. To us, outside the organization, it is a hugely simple issue about whether or not to get blood. Why can't they see that, we scream, beating futilely on the walls of the super-cult. But inside, it is warm, safe, and suffocating. An act like a blood transfusion would have taken a toll on Bethany. Not to mention losing all of her friends, her mother, etc.
Can we blame her, or call it pathetic, when someone chooses a death they view as noble over a complete social transformation?
That's what I objected to. But apparently the word was applied to the situation as a whole, which is more than merely pathetic. It is a scandal before God.
No, I'm not flippant - just very tired and older than my years.
Anyway, if we believe in God, I'm sure Bethany is either in a better place or has one waiting for her.
CZAR
today was one of the hardest days i've had yet since leaving jw.
i was barely able to work, and i have a knot in my stomach.. i look at the world situation and i feel so hopeless and helpless.
knowing there are millions of people outside of the u.s. that, if you were to put a button in front of them that had a label below it that said "kill every man woman and child in the u.s.a." that they wouldn't even hesitate to press it.. i wonder where it will end.
Yo,
I have a ton of mental issues. Etc. Oh well. Sometimes I get scared.
But then I stop and think - I'm dealing with issues that are way over my head! That's what the watchtower does! Every time it comes out, its about the hidden dangers of trash disposal, or the secret spiritual hazards involved with secondhand smoke. It's boogeymen.
Jesus gave very good advice, "SUfficient for each day is its own badness."
So. Relax. Tackle the problems you can handle, humbly work what you can find, improve the things you can see. Worlds do not change because of votes, but because of how each one of us as individuals hold up or betray our civilizations. Are you really worried about our country? Then help your fellow countrymen by volunteering at the local homeless shelter, or pick up some litter, or join a clean water campaign. God doesn't need another King or President or Governing Body to save the world for him. He wants little people like you and me who don't mind doing the grunt work of worldsaving. I'm going to become a nurse, and I'm going to be good at it because I know WHY I'm doing it.
Many people are tripping over things that are stirred up for us - but they might not even be real! Governments are not above making the populace afraid of things to drive them in desired directions. the WT did it to me all the time. No wonder we have anxiety and mental disorders!
Anyway, the best thing I can say is repeat Paul's words, "Faith, Hope and Love, and the greatest of these is Love."
Hope I encouraged you if nothing else.
CZAR
stupid rules list....
i will start.... number 1) two people have to witness a sin before it is reported to the superior authorities....making me the org the last word in all areas.. the most stupid rule gets to post it once the gb has judged it the most stupid?
maybe simon will be one of the judges..... breeze
Not being alone with a single female for even a second. A married one is ok, even though adultery is a WORSE sin than fornication.
No boob touching. How many infants must be declared "Bad Association" before these pint size young people stop putting their mouth on organs that God has clearly reserved for the father's use!
No masturbation! Let your body relieve its pressures in a natural way, I was advised. There is a natural way. It's called MASTURBATION!
No college. Thank heavens that changed.
No breakfast at service break. Coffee and unleavened toast (no butter) only.
White shirts only on the platform.
TWO bags, one for service, one for meetings. Couldn't use the same one.
No fencing, martial arts, or organized sports at all. Even a game that got scheduled ahead of time would probably get broken up by the elder.
Don't say anything that might "stumble" someone. (I always thought, if they can be stumbled, then they are looking to fall)
Avoid worldly friends. (Not to mention at what point does someone become a "brother" or a "sister".)
"Mark" bad witnesses. Avoid.
Don't leave during the meeting. Better not to come at all than leave halfway.
Elders can't drink.
No underage drinking.
Don't break the speed limit.
CZAR
