what other religious organizations are supposedly 'preaching the good news of the kingdom throughout the earth' other that the jws?
i can only think of mormons but know of missionaries in the catholic and cof e faith.
but does this mean that 'then the end will come', as the wtbts preaches or have their always been missionaries on a christianity conversion trip?.
Here's a link to see how well the "gospel" is being preached Seems to me if Jehovah really cared about "saving" people from armageddon, he would have brought it years ago, before so many people were born!
http://gatheringofisrael.com/gospelclock/gospelclock2002.html
i've never been a dub but i've been lurking around here on an off for about a year.
i came here to gain insight into my guy and it's been quite an eye-opening education.
thanks to all of you for all i have learned.
I'm not sure this is a personality trait, but the one thing I do credit the WTBTS for is the Theocratic Ministry School.
I have to do public speaking in my job, and believe it or not, all those talks paid off, getting me comfortable talking to an audience. But the quality of what I say has improved dramatically.
some big fat liar made sumthin up again!
looky here what i went and found in the bible!
remember that little dove that desended down on jesus right after he was baptised by john?
Not if John the baptist spoke the words
Thats a big IF, and it doesn't explain the succession of days.
Man, thats what I hate about commentary with the bible. If you just read it... it contradicts itself and then you need commentators and "what if" scenarios to try to work out the conflicts. Heaven forbid, its just a book written by man and NOT God.
a Christian, nobody will convince you otherwise. Once I got into it with a JW sympathizer on Christ not being in the tomb dead for 3 days and nights (like Jonah, as prophecied). In the end, when there was no more wiggle room for the guy, he left the debate. Happy knowing (I guess) that his belief and faith in the bible being inerrant was somehow secure.
some big fat liar made sumthin up again!
looky here what i went and found in the bible!
remember that little dove that desended down on jesus right after he was baptised by john?
At first I dismissed the John relating it "later" theory. Then I read the account, and almost agreed.
Almost.
What can be used against the "next day" being the next day after John's testimony, is John also describes that on "the next day" Jesus picked his disciples. If John was relating to a "past" event, (the baptism) the apostles would have already been chosen when John was speaking. Mark also speaks of the disciples being chosen (Mark 1: 16-20) AFTER the temptation. John describes the disciples being chosen (John 1:35-45)... some of the disciples of John went after Jesus. Then John, in chapter 2 clarifies that the 3rd day they went to the wedding. Again, this proves the point that it wasn't a past event, but written as "present", because you wouldn't relate the succession of days between past and present.
i can't imagine jesus shunning anyone.
on the contrary, he went towards those who needed help the most.
if the jw's followed jesus footsteps, they wouldn't shun.
Even Satan couldn't mislead Jesus, so of course no man could, therefore he had nothing to fear and could not be mislead by bad associations.Men on the other hand, are not Jesus, and can be mislead, hence shunning to keep the congregation safe.
dh - I see your point, how a JW might respond.... BUT being the 'poztate that I am, I'd respond...
Jesus was the "equal" or "equivalent" of Adam. Adam was mislead by association, his wife Eve, and she was decieved by Satan. Therefore, "perfect" people can be influenced by their association. Jesus still would have had to watch his association, and he was tempted many times, even by his disciple's words. So the fact that the bible records Jesus as associating with sinners has nothing to do with the fact that he couldn't be mislead... he could have. His choice to associate with the despised was recorded as an example of compassion. As he said "a doctor goes to the sick" (paraphrase).
The Pharisee's and jewish nation had the same set-up of df'ing. They couldn't put someone to death by stoning due to the Roman Law, so they had them removed from the synagogue. Jesus sought out these shunned ones and associated with them.
want to see the wtbts go down, get debunked, exposed, payed back?
know this "every jw is going to die"
"vengeance is mine, i will repay"
Maybe I'm reading Paduan's post differently than everyone else. I don't see "God" or "God's vengence" mentioned in his statement.
I read it to mean, that we all grow old, get sick and die. Regardless of race, culture, wealth, belief, etc.
Its the great "equalizer". I've seen it happen in my family and to friends who are witnesses, who never thought they'd "see death". They were suppose to live to see the New System.
Its sad, actually. When you realize its all b*llsh*t, you accept that you will grow old and die in this world - until then, you hope and believe that you will be amongst the .01% of the world's population to survive the great slaughter.
hey gang,.
this isn't a debate-for-debate's sake thread.
i enter with an informed but open mind.
Almost - I'm not here to convince you of "God", but to share my personal thoughts, which unfortunately somewhat conflict between what I "hope" and what I believe to be "true".
I'm also agnostic. If I were to look for "God", the Christian God would be the last one in line. The God described in the bible goes against every grain in me of what I would imagine the creator to be. The bible (IMO) is just man's attempt to explain "God" and control humans. Like any other religion. For me, religion fails miserably at any level of drawing people to God. It serves some purposes, though, and I don't judge those that need religion to structure their spirituality.
For me, the "creator" is simply the life-force in us. The life-force that grows a seed to a tree, a baby, animals, etc. I don't know whether this force has personality, or is just a power that has always existed in the universe. Its this unknown aspect of life that I feel motivates humans to worship and attempt to define the source of life.
I also believe in evolution.
There are some on this board that are very spiritual - James Thomas always strikes a cord in me when he posts. If "God" exists, then I believe things are exactly the way they are suppose to be. I don't believe the Creator made mistakes (eg. allowing imperfection to arise in humans that we need "saving" from). I also don't believe the Creator discriminates between indivduals of different faiths (Muslims are right, Christians are wrong).
The major part of me believes death is the end... but a small part of me hopes that we "recycle". That with any natural cycle (water, air, etc) that our life-force continues on.
I've accepted that none of us "know". We find a "comfort zone" of beliefs to aid us through this life. I find spirituality in human nature (by-and-large). The disaster in S. East Asia is horrendous, yet to see the human compassion and love expressed by those that give aid to the survivors is a source of comfort to me. To see humans assist one another. In your example of a neighbor slitting your throat, you may be able to call 911, and have medical attention, or if you died, a justice system would work on punishing your killer. All humans. All human spirit and justice and compassion.
...how do you cope when someone dear to you dies?.
i have felt this sense of total panic over me since my grandmother's passing earlier this week, because i don't know where she is or what is happening to her, if anything.
part of me clings to the jw indoctrination that she is just asleep, but i don't believe in the resurrection to life on earth anymore so that leaves me cold and empty.
Sylvia has said that animals do not recycle. She also maintained for 40 years that angels did not have wings. Now she has changed her mind.
Jeehober is giving her "new light".
I do enjoy her writings. Take the good, leave behind the rest.
...how do you cope when someone dear to you dies?.
i have felt this sense of total panic over me since my grandmother's passing earlier this week, because i don't know where she is or what is happening to her, if anything.
part of me clings to the jw indoctrination that she is just asleep, but i don't believe in the resurrection to life on earth anymore so that leaves me cold and empty.
(((Fleur))) - my condolences to you and your family. Grief is a natural part of losing a loved one, regardless of a person's belief in the afterlife.
I'm agnostic as well. I'm torn on this as well. I see that we are apart of the natural cycle of "life and death" and feel that when we die, that we are *gone*, non-existence.
Yet apart of me clings to hope after death. I feel this may come from our desire to *not die* - the difficulty our mind has of accepting mortality.
Here is what I hope happens. I've read Sylvia Browne's books and have taken some of what she says as comfort (regardless of "truth"). I'd love to believe that we have chosen to come to earth, learn lessons, grow as a being, and that we "cross-over" back "home". That we can choose to stay on the other side, or come back to earth for another set of *lessons*. Obviously, I don't take what she says as the gospel truth, but its a nice thought. Plus, my bil had an experience that was extremely comforting to him with his dead brother.
His brother died when he was a young teenager in a farm accident. My bil was around 7 yrs old and found his brother. It was extremely traumatic for him, and every year, around the time of his brother's death, he goes into a slight depression. My bil does not believe in God or the afterlife. Last year, at the anniversary of his brother's death, he had a "vision" (for lack of a better word), where his brother came to him and comforted him. Told him that he is OK and that he needed to move past his sorrow. It was extremely vivid and NOT a dream. My bil doesn't do drugs, drink or practice any meditation (he doesn't beleive in it). He hasn't had anything like it since...
We don't believe in the supernatural.
As you know, no one knows what happens at death. I do believe that if there is something beyond this physical life, that we are ALL accepted regardless.
i've been out for 8 years, and for the first time in my life i am doubting.. not big doubts, but little ones.
it's all the middle east and the "peace and security" talk.
i feel like armageddon is coming.. the brainwashing never ends.
I haven't been around as long as Mulan BUT I remember from the time I was a kid, the middle east on the news. Since the Gulf war in the early 90's its been the same. I was watching the news with my sis, and of course the news was "Crisis in the Middle East". BS - its "day to day" life in the middle east.
As far as Armageddon, by God's hand, thats a fantasy. If there is any "world end", trust me, we'll all be in the same boat, regardless of religion.
Enjoy your day to day life. If watching the news is getting you down, take a break from it for awhile.
There's lots of GREAT stuff out there to enjoy, and LOTS of good news.
