Posts by AndDontCallMeShirley

30

The Watchtower Writers Blame the Rank-and-File For Failed Prophecy, Why so Evil the Writers/

who is to blame jehovahs witnesses and the bible students believing the end was coming in 1914?

ive been reading lots of older magazines and they are so different from todays watchtower!

the current writers from the organization blame everyone except themselves for failed expectations, failed prophecy, "financial ruin and dependance on the goverment "old age social security and medicaid" on their rank-and-file members.

AndDontCallMeShirley

before 1975:

1968 "Just think, brothers, there are only about ninety months left before 6,000 years of mans existence on earth is completed... The majority of people living today will probably be alive when Armageddon breaks out, and there are no resurrection hopes for those who are destroyed then. So, now more than ever, it is vital not to ignore that spirit of wanting to do more." (Kingdom Ministry, March 1968, p. 4 [note: 1968 + 90 months = 1975])

1974 "Yes, the end of this system is so very near! Is that not reason to increase our activity?...Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and propertyand planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world's end." (Kingdom Ministry, May 1974, p. 3)

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After 1975:

1976: "It may be that some who have been serving God have planned their lives according to a mistaken view of just what was to happen on a certain date or in a certain year. They may have, for this reason, put off or neglected things that they otherwise would have cared for. But they have missed the point of the Bibles warnings concerning the end of this system of things, thinking that Bible chronology reveals the specific date." (Watchtower, July 15, 1976, p. 440)

note that prior to 1975 the advice from WTS was to not marry, not get an education, not pursue a career, and it was commending JWs who were selling property etc. in order to pioneer in "the short time remaining" before the end.

When 1975 failed, it now condemns those who "neglected things that they otherwise would have cared for" and who were focused on a "specific date".

30

The Watchtower Writers Blame the Rank-and-File For Failed Prophecy, Why so Evil the Writers/

by SanLuisObispoTruthSeeker in

who is to blame jehovahs witnesses and the bible students believing the end was coming in 1914?

ive been reading lots of older magazines and they are so different from todays watchtower!

the current writers from the organization blame everyone except themselves for failed expectations, failed prophecy, "financial ruin and dependance on the goverment "old age social security and medicaid" on their rank-and-file members.

AndDontCallMeShirley

Here's the closest WT ever came to an apology... 5 years too late and full of loaded language:.

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"With the appearance of the book Life Everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God, and its comments as to how appropriate it would be for the millennial reign of Christ to parallel the seventh millennium of mans existence, considerable expectation was aroused regarding the year 1975. Unfortunately, however, along with such cautionary information, There were other statements published that implied that such realization of hopes by that year was more of a probability than a mere possibility. There were statements made then, and thereafter, stressing that this was only a possibility. It is to be regretted that these latter statements apparently overshadowed the cautionary ones and contributed to a buildup of the expectation already initiated....In saying anyone, the Watchtower included all disappointed ones of Jehovah's Witnesses, hence including persons having to do with the publication of the information that contributed to the buildup of hopes centered on that date. (Watchtower, March 15, 1980, p. 17-18)

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> "Considerable expectation": Yes. Created and promoted by Watchtower.

> "Implied": No implications by WT ! Elaborate timelines, talks by F. Franz and other WT heavy-hitters, countless articles encouraging JWs to sell their homes and Pioneer, do not go to college, not enough time left in this system, etc.

> "Apparently": well, when WT was hyping 1975, they had no problem with "apparently" and were, instead, fully supporting any JWs who were sacrificing all for WT- going so far as to praising such actions in the literature as a good example to follow. Only after the failure did definitely become "apparently".

> "build-up of expectation": WT was building up expectation for 8 years prior to 1975 beginning with the Life Everlasting book in 1967. Again, since WT is the only entity that is allowed to formulate then publish its doctrines, then promote them, only WT is responsible for the failure, not the R&F JW.

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However, WT went on to criticize and condemn those JWs who left the Organization after the massive failure of 1975, saying they lacked faith. It also did not welcome back those it disfellowshipped for doubting that date and exposing WT's false prophecy thereafter.

And, WT has, for all practical purpose, washed the 1975 date from its history. In the Proclaimers book under "notable dates", nothing is mentioned of the 1975/Armageddon failed prophecy nor of the huge loss of JW membership after that year as a result. An honest apology would certainly include at least acknowledging the failure and WT's culpability.

54

How do you overcome this JW excuse?

by EdenOne in

during one of those meetings that took place before my jc, one of the elders, who was a good friend of mine back then and used to come up with a few outlandish personal views about some teachings, attempted to counter one of my arguments like this:.

eden - "well, if the truth doesn't change, why is it that what we teach as 'truth' has changed over the years (several examples given)?

how can we dogmatically claim at any given moment that we have 'the truth' if our teachings keep changing?".

AndDontCallMeShirley

The fact that the events did not happen as predicted was irrelevant because it was the correct understanding at that time. Now, "present truth" consists of something else... and so that is entirely correct, now, just as the previous understanding was entirely correct at that, and for that, time.

Yet a JW will completely dismiss the above 'logic' as absurd when a person of another religion says the same thing.

25

Watchtower 'Experts' on Being Gay?

by jw07 in

have you seen this article?.

the watchtower is trying to be experts on all things having to do with human sexuality.. repressing sexual desires, gay or straight only creates more problems.. http://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/family/teenagers/ask/pressure-to-be-gay/.

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AndDontCallMeShirley

you should know that such reasoning is based on the flawed notion that humans must act on their sexual impulses

There's also a flawed notion that WT must act on publishing every stoopid opinion (aka, "WTFness") it has on every subject, but that doesn't slow them down either.

Next months article: "Naturally Occuring Hormones- Are They For Christians?"

30

The Watchtower Writers Blame the Rank-and-File For Failed Prophecy, Why so Evil the Writers/

by SanLuisObispoTruthSeeker in

who is to blame jehovahs witnesses and the bible students believing the end was coming in 1914?

ive been reading lots of older magazines and they are so different from todays watchtower!

the current writers from the organization blame everyone except themselves for failed expectations, failed prophecy, "financial ruin and dependance on the goverment "old age social security and medicaid" on their rank-and-file members.

AndDontCallMeShirley

Holy f**k is right.

I'm glad that WT will never have the honor to man-up the way the WWCG did... because I'd immediately keel over dead from a heart attack.

24

Emblem Takers Mentally Unstable?

by Cold Steel in

onthewayout wrote: of course, for quite awhile (and probably still), congregations have been viewing any relatively young (maybe under 50 or even 60) partakers as mentally unstable and watchtower ignores such people anyway and says they must listen to the elders.

is this correct?

ever since the emblem-takers were given emeritus status as members of the faithful and discreet slave, have they been relegated to standard membership?

AndDontCallMeShirley

@ Cold Steel:

here's what OTWO was referring to:

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w11 8/15 p. 22 Questions From Readers

"Memorial partakers. This is the number of baptized individuals who partake of the emblems at the Memorial worldwide. Does this total represent the number of anointed ones on earth? Not necessarily. A number of factors—including past religious beliefs or even mental or emotional imbalance—might cause some to assume mistakenly that they have the heavenly calling. We thus have no way of knowing the exact number of anointed ones on earth; nor do we need to know. The Governing Body does not keep a list of all partakers, for it does not maintain a global network of anointed ones."

.

This statement is astounding for many reasons, not just for the judgmental nature of WT marginalizing people in their own religion.

The WT has always said (up until 2013) that all of the anointed were the 'faithful slave', therefore all were a part of Jesus' special group of truth dispensers. The Governing Body also claims to represent ALL of the faithful slave class.

Which begs the question: how can the GB represent the faithful slave (old light view) when it neither knows nor cares who they are or how many there are in the group?

Their claim exposes their hypocritical lies... again.

29

Could the allowance of blood fractions be curtailing the growth of the religion?

by Apognophos in

so, imagine that you're just a regular joe who's not familiar with the witnesses and is looking for the answers to life, the universe, and everything.

you hear a knock at your door.

before long, you are studying with a jehovah's witness.

AndDontCallMeShirley

I asked the question from an elder/cicuit overseer substitute: Where in the Bible can you find support to accept fractions? He said, "I will get back to you". Two and a half years later and I am still waiting.

Well, 2.5 years is only a fraction of a decade or a century, so the CO is still within a workable timeframe.

(P.S. Don't hold your breath on an answer)

He looked at me with a blank stare and replied, "We have the faithful slave to help us understand that issue".

So if the FS has made it allegedly crystal-clear, why doesn't the CO understand it enough to just answer the question???

Dumbass.

15

Freedom of Relgion has been taken away.

by Jeannette in

when a person is disfellowshiped by a religion just because he or she doesn't believe it all is very serious.

some disfellowshiped ones have even taken their own lives because they have been made to feel so bad.

it's down in black and white that parents and friends are supposed to shun them, shunning is acting like someone is dead.

AndDontCallMeShirley

Unfortunately, religion is treated by many/most governments with kid gloves... and actions that are considered immoral and unacceptable by non-religious organizations and legal culpability via class-action lawsuits are seen as a reasonable outcome, suddenly aren't so bad, or at least are not prosecutable, in a religious context.

I hope the day comes when religions are forced to play on a level field just like everyone else.

54

How do you overcome this JW excuse?

by EdenOne in

during one of those meetings that took place before my jc, one of the elders, who was a good friend of mine back then and used to come up with a few outlandish personal views about some teachings, attempted to counter one of my arguments like this:.

eden - "well, if the truth doesn't change, why is it that what we teach as 'truth' has changed over the years (several examples given)?

how can we dogmatically claim at any given moment that we have 'the truth' if our teachings keep changing?".

AndDontCallMeShirley

Old view: the earth is flat

New view: The earth is a sphere

Both are true.

Amazingly, it wasn't that many years ago the WT blasted the Catholic Church for changing it's 'don't eat meat on Fridays' rule. How can anyone have confidence in their religion when it changes major teachings about what is/or isn't truth, WT asked?

Somehow that reasoning only works when casting stones at someone else's glass house.

54

How do you overcome this JW excuse?

by EdenOne in

during one of those meetings that took place before my jc, one of the elders, who was a good friend of mine back then and used to come up with a few outlandish personal views about some teachings, attempted to counter one of my arguments like this:.

eden - "well, if the truth doesn't change, why is it that what we teach as 'truth' has changed over the years (several examples given)?

how can we dogmatically claim at any given moment that we have 'the truth' if our teachings keep changing?".

AndDontCallMeShirley

Laughably, JWs blow a gasket when they talk about non-JW parents who convince their children Santa Claus is real. How can they lie to their children like that? How can they keep a straight face year after year knowing their children believe an obvious lie (JW speak: error)?

Using this elder's "logic", can't it be argued the parents didn't really lie to their children? After all, only in "retrospect" did they lie, because at the time the parents perpetuted the lie, the children truly believed Santa Claus was real.

Tell me, what's the difference between the above scenario and, "If Jehovah allows for a teaching or procedure to persist, it's because He wants it that way, therefore it can Never be wrong at any time in present time"?