AndDontCallMeShirley

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Posts by AndDontCallMeShirley

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  8

  Who the Great Crowd Are Baptized To

  by lambsbottom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  great crowd jws are not baptized like the annointed are.

  the great crowd's baptism does not wash them of their sins, making them sinless, until way after armageddon (1,000 year rule).

  but the annointed are washed of their sins being 'sinless', as the recent wt study stated.

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  AndDontCallMeShirley

  BTW, all sarcasm aside, my response is the typical one JWs will give you. You have, of course, poked yet another hole in WT theology.

  The holes are already there... we just shine a light on them.
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  16

  Is this why the book is grey?

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the 2014 revised edition of "what does the bible really teach?

  " uses the text of the 2013 nwt.

  i therefore assume this is the reason for the grey colour of the "bible teach" book.. examples of the adjustments appear at pages 216 and 217 of the book:.

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  AndDontCallMeShirley

  Use of "tree of enormous height" instead of "an immense tree", to match the change at Daniel 4:10

  When I read this it was like reading Daniel for the first time (w 3/14/15, study edition). Thank you WT!

  "What Does the Bible Really Teach?"

  I think, in reality, WT is actually asking here. They want to know.
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  17

  Why must we APPLY for everything?

  by Tech49 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was thinking about this today, after seeing another thread on the subject of serving in israel, of all places.

  there have been many comments on the recent thread, and the ones a little older, about how utterly ridiculous that premise is.. the bigger question is why do i have to apply?

  permission?

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  AndDontCallMeShirley

  Weren't I.D. badges a requirement for this year's IC?

  No badge, no entry.

  Two reasons for the applying process:

  1) Control,

  2) It makes Uber JWs feel more Uber by being a part of the 'special club'- you know, getting WTs stamp of approval saying the Almighty likes you enough to allow you the privilege of paying your own way to the most boring three days of your life.
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  25

  Re Hostage victims killed in Sydney: "dont worry, at least they will NOW get a ressurection"

  by stuckinarut2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so most would now know of the vile act in sydney last week where a man held hostage over 17 people in the lindt cafe in the middle of sydney.. two people were murdered...a beautiful, educated lawyer,loving mother of three, and a brave, loving young man working as the cafe manager.. this senseless and cruel act has touched everyone deeply, especially in the communities of sydney.

  the outpouring of grief and support for the victims and their families has been immense.. i was therefore outraged to have the following comment made by a witness in conversation at the kingdom hall:.

  "well, we dont need to be sad, because at least now they (the two victims) will get a ressurection.

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  AndDontCallMeShirley

  ...and finds that her husband and kids didnt get through the big A because they saw jws for what they really were.

  Or weren't lucky enough to be murdered in a diner...

  WT says that anyone who doesn't hear the 'kingdom message' has a chance to be resurrected. So, really, aren't JWs doing a disservice by preaching their message?
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  54

  How do you overcome this JW excuse?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  during one of those meetings that took place before my jc, one of the elders, who was a good friend of mine back then and used to come up with a few outlandish personal views about some teachings, attempted to counter one of my arguments like this:.

  eden - "well, if the truth doesn't change, why is it that what we teach as 'truth' has changed over the years (several examples given)?

  how can we dogmatically claim at any given moment that we have 'the truth' if our teachings keep changing?".

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  AndDontCallMeShirley

  Do you think it was Jehovah's intention to allow certain JW's to die unnecessarily while waiting for that "perspective" to change?

  I often think of the poor JWs who had a parent/child/sibling/marriage partner die for refusing an organ transplant (pre-1967) or blood fractions, like Factor 8 for a hemophilia (post-1967), only to have the very next WT magazine come in the mail saying the GB just changed their mind on the matter and now it's acceptable.

  Apparently the JW god enjoys seeing his worshippers die on Tuesday when he knows full well he always intended to change a WT policy on Wednesday anyway.

  What a dick.
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  15

  Did you grow weary in "well doing"?

  by compound complex in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  "and let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

  " holman christian standard bible; galations 6:9.. i just now remembered an old wt article about the things that discourage us about our imperfect selves.

  one such disappointment in ourselves is that we know we should continue doing good unto others, but we're simply worn out.

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  AndDontCallMeShirley

  I've never felt better in my entire life since leaving WT 3+ years ago.

  It's amazing what happens when you step off the treadmill and really begin to live.

  we know we should continue doing good unto others, but we're simply worn out.

  JWs would have time to help others... if only they weren't so exhausted doing slave labor for WT's corporate interests.
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  54

  How do you overcome this JW excuse?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  during one of those meetings that took place before my jc, one of the elders, who was a good friend of mine back then and used to come up with a few outlandish personal views about some teachings, attempted to counter one of my arguments like this:.

  eden - "well, if the truth doesn't change, why is it that what we teach as 'truth' has changed over the years (several examples given)?

  how can we dogmatically claim at any given moment that we have 'the truth' if our teachings keep changing?".

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  AndDontCallMeShirley

  The courts (at least in the USA) recognize that genuine truth cannot include omitting facts, telling half-truths, or embellishing the truth, which are, for all intents and purposes, lies.

  "Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth"?

  Yet again, the secular world recognizes a higher standard of truth than WT's God of Truth, Jehooey.

  For a JW, being told half-truths is completely acceptable. They like going on a Fool's Errand and being played for a sucker repeatedly.
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  24

  Emblem Takers Mentally Unstable?

  by Cold Steel in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  onthewayout wrote: of course, for quite awhile (and probably still), congregations have been viewing any relatively young (maybe under 50 or even 60) partakers as mentally unstable and watchtower ignores such people anyway and says they must listen to the elders.

  is this correct?

  ever since the emblem-takers were given emeritus status as members of the faithful and discreet slave, have they been relegated to standard membership?

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  AndDontCallMeShirley

  Here's how self-contradictory WT is:

  Don't judge:

  15 On the other hand, how should other Christians view a person who claims to have received this anointing and begins to partake of the emblems at the Memorial? He or she should not be judged. The matter is between this person and Jehovah.( W 6-15-09, p. 23)

  contrast with:

  But we will judge anyway:

  "A number of factors—including past religious beliefs or even mental or emotional imbalance—might cause some to assume mistakenly that they have the heavenly calling." -- W 8-15-11

  ===

  We represent the faithful slave:

  "... Governing Body, which represents "the faithful and discreet slave." -- W 6-15-09, p.24

  contrast with:

  But we we don't talk to them, know them or give a flying fig who they are:

  "The Governing Body...does not consult with... does not maintain a global network of anointed ones." -- w8/15/2011
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  30

  The Watchtower Writers Blame the Rank-and-File For Failed Prophecy, Why so Evil the Writers/

  by SanLuisObispoTruthSeeker in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  who is to blame jehovahs witnesses and the bible students believing the end was coming in 1914?

  ive been reading lots of older magazines and they are so different from todays watchtower!

  the current writers from the organization blame everyone except themselves for failed expectations, failed prophecy, "financial ruin and dependance on the goverment "old age social security and medicaid" on their rank-and-file members.

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  AndDontCallMeShirley

  before 1975:

  1968 "Just think, brothers, there are only about ninety months left before 6,000 years of mans existence on earth is completed... The majority of people living today will probably be alive when Armageddon breaks out, and there are no resurrection hopes for those who are destroyed then. So, now more than ever, it is vital not to ignore that spirit of wanting to do more." (Kingdom Ministry, March 1968, p. 4 [note: 1968 + 90 months = 1975])

  1974 "Yes, the end of this system is so very near! Is that not reason to increase our activity?...Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and propertyand planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world's end." (Kingdom Ministry, May 1974, p. 3)

  .

  After 1975:

  1976: "It may be that some who have been serving God have planned their lives according to a mistaken view of just what was to happen on a certain date or in a certain year. They may have, for this reason, put off or neglected things that they otherwise would have cared for. But they have missed the point of the Bibles warnings concerning the end of this system of things, thinking that Bible chronology reveals the specific date." (Watchtower, July 15, 1976, p. 440)

  note that prior to 1975 the advice from WTS was to not marry, not get an education, not pursue a career, and it was commending JWs who were selling property etc. in order to pioneer in "the short time remaining" before the end.

  When 1975 failed, it now condemns those who "neglected things that they otherwise would have cared for" and who were focused on a "specific date".
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  30

  The Watchtower Writers Blame the Rank-and-File For Failed Prophecy, Why so Evil the Writers/

  by SanLuisObispoTruthSeeker in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  who is to blame jehovahs witnesses and the bible students believing the end was coming in 1914?

  ive been reading lots of older magazines and they are so different from todays watchtower!

  the current writers from the organization blame everyone except themselves for failed expectations, failed prophecy, "financial ruin and dependance on the goverment "old age social security and medicaid" on their rank-and-file members.

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  AndDontCallMeShirley

  Here's the closest WT ever came to an apology... 5 years too late and full of loaded language:.

  .

  "With the appearance of the book Life Everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God, and its comments as to how appropriate it would be for the millennial reign of Christ to parallel the seventh millennium of mans existence, considerable expectation was aroused regarding the year 1975. Unfortunately, however, along with such cautionary information, There were other statements published that implied that such realization of hopes by that year was more of a probability than a mere possibility. There were statements made then, and thereafter, stressing that this was only a possibility. It is to be regretted that these latter statements apparently overshadowed the cautionary ones and contributed to a buildup of the expectation already initiated....In saying anyone, the Watchtower included all disappointed ones of Jehovah's Witnesses, hence including persons having to do with the publication of the information that contributed to the buildup of hopes centered on that date. (Watchtower, March 15, 1980, p. 17-18)

  .

  > "Considerable expectation": Yes. Created and promoted by Watchtower.

  > "Implied": No implications by WT ! Elaborate timelines, talks by F. Franz and other WT heavy-hitters, countless articles encouraging JWs to sell their homes and Pioneer, do not go to college, not enough time left in this system, etc.

  > "Apparently": well, when WT was hyping 1975, they had no problem with "apparently" and were, instead, fully supporting any JWs who were sacrificing all for WT- going so far as to praising such actions in the literature as a good example to follow. Only after the failure did definitely become "apparently".

  > "build-up of expectation": WT was building up expectation for 8 years prior to 1975 beginning with the Life Everlasting book in 1967. Again, since WT is the only entity that is allowed to formulate then publish its doctrines, then promote them, only WT is responsible for the failure, not the R&F JW.

  --

  However, WT went on to criticize and condemn those JWs who left the Organization after the massive failure of 1975, saying they lacked faith. It also did not welcome back those it disfellowshipped for doubting that date and exposing WT's false prophecy thereafter.

  And, WT has, for all practical purpose, washed the 1975 date from its history. In the Proclaimers book under "notable dates", nothing is mentioned of the 1975/Armageddon failed prophecy nor of the huge loss of JW membership after that year as a result. An honest apology would certainly include at least acknowledging the failure and WT's culpability.