Posts by bjc2read

8

JESUS was the Son of.....(?)MAN (which man?)

by Terry in

jesus constantly called himself by the peculiar phrase son of man.. which man?.

joseph contributed no dna to jesus.. it requires 23 chromosomes from a male and 23 chromosomes from a female to produce a human being.. jesus could not exist with only female chromosomes.. **aramaic bar nasha idiom was a way of talking about one's own self as a human being.. it is an expression which is humble to the point of being unworthy.. job 25:4-6) 4 so how can.

mortal man be in the right before god, or how can one born of a woman be clean?

bjc2read

Jesus constantly called himself by the peculiar phrase Son of Man.
Which man?
Joseph contributed NO DNA to Jesus.
It requires 23 chromosomes from a MALE and 23 chromosomes from a FEMALE to produce a human being.
Jesus could not exist with only FEMALE chromosomes.
Absolutely correct, Terry!
Thus, I believe you are raising an intricate, complex and yet blatantly obvious question itself, that should be considered at one time or other, by all thinking christians or so-called christian believers. The key question should be whether the real "Son of Man" spoken of in the bible can actually be Jesus Christ at all, given the facts we have at hand. Because again, you have raised very excellent questions on this topic.
In other words, given what we know about this situation, is it possible this expression ("Son of Man") can actually refer to someone else, maybe besides Jesus. I believe this is a real possibility.
I will give you a very easy example. Most people read in the bible, the rule of the "Davidic Heir," the "messiah" is one who is said to be the coming ruler of Israel, would occupy (according those within the Jewish circles) an ETERNAL THRONE and would have an ETERNAL RULERSHIP, foretold in prophecy. (Psalms 89:36; Isaiah 9:7; Daniel 7:14)
Then too, his "heirs" or "offspring" will likewise rule for ALL ETERNITY too, as foretold in prophecy. (Psalms 89:4; Psalms 89:29; Psalms 89:36; Daniel 7:27; Revelation 22:5)
And yet, the bible is very clear, Jesus' heavenly rule, is a temporary one, one that definitely comes to an end. No Christian would deny these thoughts. -- 1 Corinthians 15:24, 25
So, we could rightfully ask, is this promised "Son of Man," someone else, besides Jesus Christ?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Great topic!
bjc

10

Scripturally-Speaking, Do You Think First Century Christians Were Taught To "Hate" All Apostates???

by bjc2read in

here are some searching questions about the governing body's public position on the prescribed treatment of all "apostates" against the organization, as taught at the most recent summer assemblies of jehovah's witnesses, in the year of 2013.. in your opinion, why does not the verse (shown below) not apply to how jehovah's witnesses are currently taught to feel about "apostates," and their activities toward the organization?

the verses in question, are from the words of jesus who clearly said:.

"however, i say to you: continue to love your enemies and to pray for those persecuting you that you may prove yourselves sons of your father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise upon wicked people and good and makes it rain upon righteous people and unrighteous.

bjc2read

Please find below a YouTube link, to the particular "Talk" in question, given at the recent Summer 2013 Assembly of Jehovah's Witnesses entitled: Beware of Apostates!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSEVEeUSkD0&feature=youtu.be&t=2m

bjc

10

Scripturally-Speaking, Do You Think First Century Christians Were Taught To "Hate" All Apostates???

by bjc2read in

here are some searching questions about the governing body's public position on the prescribed treatment of all "apostates" against the organization, as taught at the most recent summer assemblies of jehovah's witnesses, in the year of 2013.. in your opinion, why does not the verse (shown below) not apply to how jehovah's witnesses are currently taught to feel about "apostates," and their activities toward the organization?

the verses in question, are from the words of jesus who clearly said:.

"however, i say to you: continue to love your enemies and to pray for those persecuting you that you may prove yourselves sons of your father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise upon wicked people and good and makes it rain upon righteous people and unrighteous.

bjc2read

Hi all,

Here are some searching questions about the Governing Body's PUBLIC POSITION on the prescribed treatment of all "apostates" against the organization, as taught at the most recent summer assemblies of Jehovah's Witnesses, in the year of 2013.

In your opinion, why does not the verse (shown below) NOT APPLY to how Jehovah's Witnesses are currently taught to feel about "apostates," and their activities toward the organization? The verses in question, are from the words of Jesus who clearly said:

"However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those persecuting you that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise upon wicked people and good and makes it rain upon righteous people and unrighteous." -- Matthew 5:44, 45 New World Translation.

In other words, do you believe personally these words of Jesus, should or should not have a serious bearing on the stand of all Jehovah's Witnesses, and their viewpoint of activities of all those they consider to be "apostates"?

Additionally, is it your considered opinion the apostle Paul wrote under inspiration the following words for our benefit concerning this topic, namely

"For there are many, I used to mention them often but now I mention them also with weeping, who are walking as the enemies of the torture stake of the Christ," -- Philippians 3:18 New World Translation

In the above verse, Paul "mentioned them [apostates] in weeping," meaning he "weeped" for "apostates" in sadness, certain individuals who were once former members of the christian congregation, that had later turned against it? Are we seeing that same kind of attitude in the current Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, in your opinion, toward "apostates" and their activities, as expressed at the assemblies and literature?

Further in your opinion, do you think Paul here in this verse, is "actively" teaching "hate" against all apostates to the brothers of the first century? Also in your opinion, would you say the existence of such a verse, actually shows beyond a shadow of a doubt back in the first century, Paul as an inspired apostle ... actually "hated" all apostates, even taught and publicly advocated "hate" against all apostates ... just as the Governing Body of today openly does at the recent summer assemblies of Jehovah's Witnesses, in the year of 2013?

In other words, can you honestly say, the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses is following the example set by Jesus and the apostle Paul about proper conduct toward "apostates" of our modern time?

Hmmmmmmm...questions to ponder for all Jehovah's Witnesses, I think.

I thank you in advance for your response.

bjc

18

Has anyone listened to Reggae / Rastafarian religious music?

by sosoconfused in

i am sure that none of you here are rastafarians and neither am i. i have just noticed however that their religious music is soo freaking moving!.

i guess after years of kingdom melodies that had absolutely no form of feeling in them and were pretty much some guy plucking piano keys anything would be better.

but i literally sit here listening to some of these and almost break down crying.. .

bjc2read

Also I noticed when I visited there, the Rastafarians often publicly express fondness and love for the name "JAH" [and/or "Jehovah"] used regularly in their worship and music. Case in point, this popular song by Rastafarian Bob Marley:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY5_Q9azOm0

bjc

20

"Sit at my right hand" - WHEN?

by EdenOne in

i recently started thinking if there could be a way to refute the entire 1914 doctrine without having to go into discussing chronology - like proving if jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce or not; if the "gentile times" have anything to to with the kingdom; if "7 times" are really 2520 years"; if those are solar years or lunar years .... and i came to this conclusion: nothing of that matters!

when will the lord sit at the right hand of jehovah?

therefore, the fulfillment of psalm 110:1, when the lord sits by the right hand of jehovah god took place sometime between 35 ce and 60 ce.. .

bjc2read

EdenOne,

Question:

Given the information you have presented on your website, how do you harmonize the prophecy of Daniel 7:11-14 which shows at a special time in human history, exactly when the "Son of Man" is given a worldwide kingship and rulership by Jehovah Himself, the actual presence of the wicked "Small Horn" (and 4th fearsome "beastly" governmental powers, per vs. 7) are active, and are carrying out "his" or "their" vicious "activity" and destruction upon the "holy ones" who are to finally take possession of the "kingdom of God," all during this exact same time period of the crowning and enthroning of God's designated king?

Additionally, does not verses 11, 12 of Daniel 7th chapter also show this wicked "Small Horn" (along with other "rulerships" too) is completely destroyed, completely removed from God's sight, and all of this during this exact same time as the enthronement of the "Son of Man"? Does not the context itself of this prophecy, Daniel chapter 7, show all of these things? How do you explain such a time period? (Compare Daniel 7:20-22.)

BTW, don't get me wrong, I don't believe in the 1914 "garbage" of the Watchtower Society/JWs either.

But, I do believe there is a very, easy scriptural way to resolve this question, though.

... thanks in advance for your response.

bjc2read

2

HOLD ON! EVERYBODY BETTER CHECK OUT THIS INFO!!!

by bjc2read in

the watchtower society and governing body have many times told us that jesus is the mediator only for the anointed and not the "great crowd" of other sheep.

(revelation 7:9-15) for example these quotes,.

*** w09 4/15 p. 27 appreciating the greater moses ***.

bjc2read

The Watchtower Society and Governing Body have many times told us that Jesus is the mediator ONLY for the anointed and not the "Great Crowd" of other sheep. (Revelation 7:9-15) For example these quotes,

*** w09 4/15 p. 27 Appreciating the Greater Moses *** "Value Christ as Mediator" 14 Like Moses, Jesus was a mediator. A mediator acts as a bridge between two parties. Moses mediated the Law covenant between Jehovah and the Israelites. If the sons of Jacob obeyed the laws of God, they would remain God’s special property, his congregation. (Ex. 19:3-8) That covenant stayed in force from 1513 B.C.E. until the first century C.E. 15 In 33 C.E., Jehovah initiated a better covenant with a new Israel, “the Israel of God,” which became a worldwide congregation made up of anointed Christians. (Gal. 6:16) While the covenant mediated by Moses included laws written by God on stone, the covenant mediated by Jesus is superior. Its laws are inscribed by God on human hearts. (Read 1 Timothy 2:5; Hebrews 8:10.) Thus, “the Israel of God” is now God’s special property, ‘a nation producing the fruits’ of the Messianic Kingdom. (Matt. 21:43 ) Members of that spiritual nation are the participants in that new covenant. Still, they are not the only ones to benefit from it. Untold multitudes, even many who at present are asleep in death, will receive everlasting blessings because of that superlative covenant.

*** w08 12/15 pp. 13-14 Appreciate Jesus’ Unique Role in God’s Purpose *** “The Mediator of a New Covenant” 11 Read 1 Timothy 2:5, 6. Jesus is the “one mediator between God and men.” He is “the mediator of a new covenant.” (Heb. 9:15; 12:24) However, Moses is also spoken of as a mediator—the mediator of the Law covenant. (Gal. 3:19) How, then, is Jesus’ role as Mediator unique? 12 The original-language word translated “mediator” is a legal term. It refers to Jesus as a legal Mediator (or, in a sense, an attorney) of the new covenant that made possible the birth of a new nation, “the Israel of God.” (Gal. 6:16) This nation is composed of spirit-anointed Christians, who form a heavenly “royal priesthood.” (1 Pet. 2:9; Ex. 19:6) The Law covenant, with Moses as mediator, was not able to produce a nation like that. 13 What does Jesus’ role as Mediator involve? Well, Jehovah applies the value of Jesus’ blood to those being brought into the new covenant. In this way, Jehovah legally credits them with righteousness. (Rom. 3:24; Heb. 9:15) God can then take them into the new covenant with the prospect of their becoming heavenly king-priests! As their Mediator, Jesus assists them in maintaining a clean standing before God.—Heb. 2:16. 14 What about those who are not in the new covenant, those who hope to live forever on earth, not in heaven? While not participants in the new covenant, these are beneficiaries of it. They receive forgiveness of their sins and are declared righteous as God’s friends. (Jas. 2:23; 1 John 2:1, 2) Whether we have a heavenly hope or an earthly hope, each one of us has good reason to appreciate Jesus’ role as the Mediator of the new covenant.

*** w91 2/15 p. 18 par. 11 “You Were Bought With a Price” *** 11 Nevertheless, in a preliminary way, the great crowd have already “washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.” (Revelation 7:14) Christ does not act as Mediator of the new covenant toward them, yet they benefit from this covenant through the work of God’s Kingdom. Christ still acts toward them, however, as High Priest, through whom Jehovah can and does apply the ransom to the extent of their now being declared righteous as God’s friends. (Compare James 2:23.) During the Millennium, they will gradually “be set free from enslavement to corruption [until finally they] have the glorious freedom of the children of God.”—Romans 8:21.

------------end of quotes-----------

However,

HOLD ON! EVERYBODY BETTER CHECK OUT THIS INFO!!!

bejay

46

STEP RIGHT UP Hurry Hurry Hurry We've got the cure for what ails you!

by Terry in

step right up close ladies and gents.. listen up!!.

are ya fat?

ugly?

bjc2read

Hi all,

This is an interesting topic and a lot of emotions may be stirred up especially for those who spent a lot of time in the organization as I did. But as I see it we need to keep in mind one thing. Jehovah doesn't change, Jesus doesn't change, the Bible doesn't change, BUT humans do change!!

If we look back some years at the teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses and compare their teachings today, we can see some very significant changes. These changes may be the reason why many have left the organization. But this does not mean that Jehovah changed or His word changed, but only that leadership changed the way that they understand scriptures and, in this case, not for the better.

The Bible gives many examples of where God's people Israel left his righteous laws and began following their own ways. They rebelled against Him and led the entire nation away from following God's commands which brought judgment upon them. Is it not possible to believe that this is exactly what is happening to the leadership of Jehovah's Witnesses? They are doing exactly what Israel's leadership did, rebelling against Jehovah's commands and can they not expect the same punishment metted out to ancient Israel?

But this did not mean that all hope was lost for ancient Israel as God did save a remnant of them. Can we not expect to see a similar saving work to be done by Jehovah today? Remember, He [Jehovah] does not change as the Bible assures us.

Bejay

44

Will Michael Jacksons Mom be DF'd ???

by tresdecu in

jw
friends

jackson family to host first christmasmichael jackson's family is to hold christmas celebrations for the first time this year (09) - putting their own religious beliefs aside for the superstar's three children.. the jacksons were all brought up as jehovah's witnesses, a christian-based religion which does not recognise birthdays or christmas.

but the thriller hitmaker deviated from his family's belief system and always enjoyed the holiday season with prince michael, 12, paris, 11, and seven-year-old prince michael ii.

and family matriarch katherine jackson, who has full custody of the kids, is determined to put their former traditions aside in december (09) to keep the youngsters' lives as normal as possible.

bjc2read

Hello Madmary1,
You said:
I guess when you have money, even in the Watchtower land you can do whatever you want!!!
I have to agree with you. For a Jehovah's Witness to make such a blatant statement, that person must be confident that they can do what they want without any consequence to themselves. That is, they have enough money, influence, or friends to keep them safely in the organization. Most Jehovah's Witnesses would not announce to the world or to anyone, for that matter, if they plan to go against organizational policy without some strong back-up.
bjc

2

Interesting Discussion With JW On 1914, Daniel 7 & Beasts

by bjc2read in

hi all,.

here is the link:.

teaching of 1914, daniel 7 & beasts.

bjc2read

Hi all,

Here is an excerpt of a discussion going on between a Jehovah's Witness and an inquiring person on Beliefnet Board concerning Daniel 7:11. (If you want to read it at Beliefnet, see link in above post.)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------snip---------------------------------------------------------------

Hi bejay,

You ask:

You are asking us to believe, verse 11, the verse quoted above, shows the "Fourth Beast" (Roman Empire) is destroyed over 1,000 years by Jehovah God, BEFORE ... BEFORE the "Court" ever took "its seat" in 1914? And that's BEFORE ... BEFORE the wicked "small horn" ever utters the "grandiose words" that greatly offend Jehovah?

In other words, Jehovah had the TRIAL and JUDGED the "Fourth Beast" 1,000 years AFTER He destroyed it?

I reply:

No.

I have found the reason for the confusion. My bad.

This statement: "Indeed, the fourth beast was "destroyed" centuries ago. Long before Jesus received his Messianic throne in 1914" (A complete brain burp - Hadn't had my first coffee) shouldn't have been stated as it is incorrect. What was in my mind to say was: (The fourth empire was destroyed not "The fourth beast"). Having said that the fourth empire was not litterally destroyed but simply faded away.

Anyway, back on track. The fourth beast started out as the Roman Empire of which as I stated Britain was a colony, the "small horn".

I said: "The beasts you refer to from Daniel represent Political Empires, the fourth beast being the Roman Empire. It is no longer with us but the empires that came from the fourth beast are. The most significant of which was the British Empire or Great Britain (Britain once being a colony of Rome).

The "small horn" or Britain comes from the fourth beast and is therefore a part of or offshoot of the Roman empire and is itself included as part of the fourth beast. Therefore, the fourth beast is still in effect in existence today as represented not only primarily by the little horn but also by the other ten horns that came from it, 3 of which the little horn, Britain, defeated or "plucked up" (Spanish, Dutch, and French) to take over from Rome as the new world power. (Dan 7:8)

So when the "Ancient of days" sat down, the fourth beast as represented by Britain, the "small horn, and also by the "Ten Horns" that came from it, was still in existence.

... As for Jesus receiving his Kingdom after the fourth beast is destroyed this is incorrect. Verses 13, 14 are looking back retrospectively as confirmed by the rest of the chapter and other books of the bible.

-----------------------------------------------------------------snip--------------------------------------------------------

After reading the above, you can truly see what damage the teaching of the Watchtower Society has done to the thinking and reasoning ability of 7 million adherents.

Is this confusing or what!?!

Whew!

2

Interesting Discussion With JW On 1914, Daniel 7 & Beasts

by bjc2read in

hi all,.

here is the link:.

teaching of 1914, daniel 7 & beasts.

bjc2read

Hi all,

Here is the link:

Teaching of 1914, Daniel 7 & Beasts