Is there anyone who knows how much JP Morgan has provided with loans against to WBTS with the Brooklyn estate as security? I do believe that after the bankruptcy of Lehman and brothers 2008. JP Morgan took over?
Bugbear
JoinedPosts by Bugbear
-
23
Why the Governing Body caught a frightful fright
by Saintbertholdt init has been extensively reported on the forum that there has been a marked increase in effort over the past two years by the governing body of jehovah's witnesses to encourage an increase in monetary donations.
this has also been accompanied by the stripping of financial capital from the local congregations.
as has also been reported on this forum, this has in all probability been done to facilitate the financing of the vast new hq building project as well as the financing of the shift from a publishing company to becoming an internet based charismatic multimedia company which produces lame pixar/disney animation knock offs while simultaneously parading the governing body's ever expanding waistlines, blingy accoutrements and stupid grins.. meanwhile the financials of the organization remains as murky as ever.
-
-
-
20
Reasons for NOT Returning
by Saved_JW ini left the watchtower in the winter of 2008. my first year out was by far the most difficult.
i had every intention of returning to the watchtower for the very purpose of being able to speak with my friends and family.
i had already concluded that the teachings were not the "truth" [after reading crisis of conscience] so coming back was more emotional then anything.
-
-
Bugbear
Thank you for your post Saved JW.
I have been studying the Bible for almost 20 years….After graduating in History and Science comparing to the the Bible scriptures I have have come to to the conclusion that the Bible cannot give you any reason to believe in it at all. So I wonder, why do you use the Bible as as a FACIT to your believes? I think that most people will do better of by thinking by themselves. Not using all old Christian or Islamic propaganda to examine their believe. Nor of them are a fact or a FACIT, to the world?
Bugbear
-
21
I'd report THAT to the police, but not THIS...
by Northern Star ini am new to the boards, so a little background info may be a good idea?
also, i'm not quite sure which sub-forum to post this to....
i have a typical religious background for my country; grew up with lutheran christianity (which was our state religion up until 2012; we now have a secular constitution).
-
-
Bugbear
Hello Northern Star! And welcome to this forum.
It looks like we are living in neighboring countries. 40 years ago I started to study with the JW. At the time I was totally ignorant in religious matters (and Philosophical questions) , so I became a JW. Even un elder by the time. I always had my doubts and a lot of unsatisfied/unanswered questions. 20 years ago a started to fade, and got a new chance to study. I started my studies in a university. My subjects were History of Ideas and science, History, and Theoretical Philosophy.
Today I am a total convinced atheist…… But I still have one family member who is “in” the cult. This is why I can understand you confusion about the two witnesses and their obvious “cognitive dissonance “. They will not or cannot tell you all facts at once. Some of them does not even know themselves what the soc. want them to say. The most important for them is to continue their “study hours”, so that the will remain in good standing within their congregation.
I think you have a good opportunity to wake them up, asking questions on the subject about The flood, ancient tribes, how long have humans existed on earth, the nature of their cruel God…a.s.v.
Good luck
Bugbear
-
75
How did you feel when you found out "the truth about the truth"?
by stuckinarut2 inso when you first found out specific facts about the organisation, how did you feel??.
the un membership.
the way 1914 was calculated from pyramid measurements.
-
-
Bugbear
Released, liberated, confused, angry, scared……..
I guess these words are not the only feelings that I had when I realized that I had been prisoned over 5 years as a mental slave. I was an elder at that time with many members in my family in. So I kept on smiling, serviced, talks in congregations and assembly halls. I was very popular . I guess I had cognitive dissonance. I knew I was lying, but had a feeling that it was better for my family to have all these friends. This type of life caused me depression, heart attacks, so I started to slowly fade away and started (against the will of the soc.) to study on university. This only to confirm my earlier understanding. I think my family understood my situation (at least my children) and when one or two of them decided that they no longer wanted to be JW:s, it was time for me to. I had several conversations with both CO:s and Bethel people, and I presented the result of my University studies and they just couldn´t explain all the contradictions and philosophical failure in the soc.s arguments, so they rushed away from my home and I have never heard from them again ---- and now I am only happy and released, deliberated and FREE FREE
Bugbear
-
34
Why do people just give their money to the Watchtower?
by WireRider inwhat do they contribute to humanity?
what do they contribute to any part of society?.
why are people paying for a scam?.
-
-
Bugbear
For years I have heard from my wife that we never shall give any contribution to “wordly” organizations such as the Red Cross, doctors without borders, save the children, UNHCR a.s.f. The contribution we could have chipped in with, would only disappear in “administrative costs” such as salaries, air tickets, luxury hotels and bribes to the local politicians.
I do agree with lots of what she thinks, but the other day I looked up some of these organizations accounting statement. And I was astonished over how well they showed and specified were their money had been spent. Every project, every school, every water project, every disease fight, every child home, was impeccably specified. And the administrative cost was often lower then 20%. I guess that the WT estate business is more lucrative to the brothers. But I have not been able to se any accounting from the Watchtower and Zions Aid organization..
Bugbear
-
5
Samuel Herd's Schabowski moment
by Gorbatchov inthe samuel herd broadcasting about the layoff of fulltime wts employees, made me think about the gunter schabowski press conference in november 1989.. the correlations:.
- samuel and gunter read their message from paper.
uninterested, not enough informed.
-
-
Bugbear
Gorbatchov!
Good observation. Use history to understand your own time….
Bugbear
-
18
Scripture fatigue
by New day ini wondered why i felt so fatigued over many years from hearing the same things again and again at the meetings.
even the scriptures become too familiar.
a few days ago i quickly read through all the gospels and realised i knew all the verses in detail.
-
-
Bugbear
Yes reading the same scriptures over and over again, makes you brainwashed. Your brain will be unable to connect any other brain cells, then those already used in your Bible reading. This is a well-known method used by many totalitarian, (political, religious) organizations, to trap their members in a box. Then discourage them to look in other directions (education), makes it even mora difficult to break the barrier and actually understand things the way they really are. Frightening …..
Bugbear
-
29
Why do most Christians churches have masonic and/or pagan symbols?
by kabwell inhas anyone looked at the local churches in their area and seen pagan and freemason symbols both inside and outside.
i am not a jw but at least they don't seem to follow this trend.
why do "christians" wear a symbol of torture and death ?
-
-
Bugbear
St Berhold...
Tnks for clarifying...
Bugbear
-
29
Why do most Christians churches have masonic and/or pagan symbols?
by kabwell inhas anyone looked at the local churches in their area and seen pagan and freemason symbols both inside and outside.
i am not a jw but at least they don't seem to follow this trend.
why do "christians" wear a symbol of torture and death ?
-
-
Bugbear
Hello Kabwell and welcome to this forum.
If I remember correctly, the first christians in Rome used the drawings of a fishlike symbol. This symbol has been uset in the ancient rom catacombs.
Historicians belived that It was a secret sign, to gather all those who secretly belived in Jesus. Remember the Bible story of the "fisherman"..!
Bugbear
-
36
Hi noobie here.
by Grags inhi my name is graham (but i much prefer to be called grags), i'm a 38 year old married man from the uk and have been studying with the witnesses for about 3 months.
i do a study every saturday and love every minute.
in john 6: 16-24 jesus's disciples get onto a boat without jesus and set off.
-
-
Bugbear
Hello Gregs, welcome to the forum,
Here is an old JW that has been studding the Bible in over 40 years, including University examines in History of Ideas and Science, Philosophy, and History. I´m from Scandinavia. You are quite right about to total inconsistence of the Bible stories. Not only the different side stories, but in fact the very core of the Bible teachings according to Christianity as a whole. The core teachings of almost all Christian “cults” are: “Jesus died for all our sins, so that all who believe in him not should not face death but have eternal life.” !? Think of it!!
Jesus is send by his father to make people (his children) understand that if they obey him and listen to him, they will have eternal life?!!
We kill him, spit on him, humiliate him and he dies. This by those who really had a chance to see him, all his miracles, his wonderful teachings a.s.f.
And when he is death, all of a sudden, we are forgiven, by his father. We are suddenly in a much better position to his father then before our bestial behavior?
During 40 years of bending this problem I have never been able to understand the logic in this reasoning. You got to have a lot of “faith” to understand why Jehova will forgive you all your sins because your ancestors killed his son….
Continue to research, not only the Bible, the Koran, and even other “wholly scriptures” They are all totally whiteout all consistency, they are all just old stories, interesting to for Historians, just to understand how ancient people thought…..But absolutely inappropriate to understand “the world”
Bugbear