Gig

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Posts by Gig

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  7

  What constitutes a Hero?

  by wasasister in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a friend and i recently had this conversation in email.

  i feel very bad for everybody involved with the project, the families, etc.

  as a male child of the 60s i grew up enthralled at the whole nasa project -- building gemini models, posters on the wall, "where were you on 7/20/69", etc.

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  Gig

  I agree that the term hero is loosely defined because of its overuse. My thought is that a hero is someone that acts on someone else's need at great cost to him/her self. Unquestionably setting the right example for all of us. Courage and moral/ethical solidity is what sets the stage. I cannot take anything away from the Columbia crew, I admire and appreciate what they do so very professionally and with tremendous bravery. However I struggle to consider them heroes, at least on the level of the 9-11 firemen. They saved lives where I can't say the same for the astronauts. Yes, their deaths were a terrible loss and all the world agrees, so much so that I don't really oppose them being called heroes given the benefit of my doubt.

  I am simply saying that the better definition (by example) of a hero would be the people who attacked the terrorists mid-flight or the firemen at the WTC. Maybe it (for me) hinges on protection, or the attempt to save someone's life, which doesn't (to me) apply to the Columbia crew..even as much as I respect them.
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  3

  Qualified for stupidity

  by Gig in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i still can't believe it.

  knowing that the jw's have a qualification system in place to evaluate the preparedness of teachers, publishers, and other positions in their heirarchy...schools in fact...having even to qualify for baptism:.

  how in the world did this guy pass?

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  Gig

  I still can't believe it. Knowing that the JW's have a qualification system in place to evaluate the preparedness of teachers, publishers, and other positions in their heirarchy...schools in fact...having even to qualify for baptism:

  How in the world did this guy pass? We were speaking about whether or not the earth would be consumed by fire and this representative of God decides the way to convince me is to put a bic lighter to a handful of dirt...saying "see, it doesn't burn." I was honestly speechless while trying to comprehend that he was serious. Finally I managed "have you ever heard of magma/lava?" I'll spare you the rest of the story but can anyone top that for severely ignorant logic?
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  17

  Should jws use phrase`mother organization?

  by badboy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  because of the connations(sp?

  ) of `mother goddess', a pagan super goddesss,should a jw use this phrase?.

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  Gig

  As much as I hate to admit it, it is a clever play. Mother is to be submissive to the father, but still very much an authority, and the mother is more or less on the same level as the inheriting son...which is what their doctrine clearly teaches.
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  13

  A Growing Irritant

  by Inkie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  more and more lately when i have occasion to read any of the society's publications or any postings here at this site which quote the society's publications i find more and more lately that i become really irritated, annoyed, chafing, at the redundant phrase "anointed christians.

  " it just irritates the hell out of me.

  i don't necessarily understand the "why" of this annoyance only that i recognize that i have it.

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  Gig

  I mean absolutely no offense but your question "are there any phrases in the Society's literature that irratate you?" made me laugh. Your irritation grows and will continue to grow proportianately to the amount of literature you read. I, for one, haven't yet gotten to the point of being emotionally immune to the deceitful and arrogant attitudes and claims, and I honestly doubt that day will come.

  The contradictions and hypocritical writings are endless, the more you read and research, the more you find. This isn't the result of having concluded they're wrong and simply, without due examination, assuming them to be wrong in the first place. Most everyone here agrees, they condemn themselves without needing any help from me.

  I appreciate your "anointed anointed ones" example. Again the contradiction, christian means "belonging to Christ" and although they claim to adhere to this fundamental doctrine, in practice it plainly doesn't bear out. They are Jehovah's people and proud enough of it to boast about it with no restraint or shame. Hense the constant reliance on the phrase "Jehovah's organisation/arrangement", which is one of many phrases that irritate me.
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  7

  Not even once

  by Gig in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've read my fair share of their pubs, and nowhere, ever have i seen a clearly stated repentance or a humble confession on the part of the wts.

  i know that they have delicately admitted a mistake here and there, but it's always overshadowed by the self-praise logic that overall we should be thankful for the mistake.

  the bible specifically speaks against that.

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  Gig

  I've read my fair share of their pubs, and nowhere, ever have I seen a clearly stated repentance or a humble confession on the part of the WTS. Have any of you? I know that they have delicately admitted a mistake here and there, but it's always overshadowed by the self-praise logic that overall we should be thankful for the mistake. The Bible specifically speaks against that.

  I think this would be a great new category for Quotes, don't you? A comprehensive list of pseudo-apologies where the WTS's best effort to take responsibility can be clearly seen for what it is.
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  1

  The proper time

  by Gig in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  on saturday i had a full on, hate to say it, arguement with my jw friend.

  i'm ashamed to say i lost patience and said many things i have previously avoided - knowing it would be too much for them, especially so much at once.. anyway, i know they went to sunday's meeting, so who's food was at the proper time?

  mine or theirs?

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  Gig

  On saturday I had a full on, hate to say it, arguement with my JW friend. I'm ashamed to say I lost patience and said many things I have previously avoided - knowing it would be too much for them, especially so much at once.

  Anyway, I know they went to Sunday's meeting, so who's food was at the proper time? Mine or theirs? What was the topic of the talk and subject of the WT study article? I'd like to know whether what I said rang a bell or did the article and talk recover nicely? Any info would help...I will try to get a copy of the WT mag but tell me about it and the talk if you can. Maybe it was another one about how Jah requires that they keep their lawns and lawnmowers and houses and gutters and storage sheds and garbage cans and mailboxes nice for all the worldly people to see that they don't place value on worldly things. No, seriously, please help.

  I gotta tell you, it was liberating to say exactly what I felt needed to be said...I've wanted to explain that you can't make chicken soup out of chicken $hit for a long time now. WHEW
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  7

  The one that did it?

  by Gig in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  was there a single scripture that finally made perfect sense as you were tempted to leave and allowed you to do so in good conscience?

  maybe it was the one that never made sense until you were out?

  was there one that seemed to sum it all up after you left?

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  Gig

  Was there a single scripture that finally made perfect sense as you were tempted to leave and allowed you to do so in good conscience? Maybe it was the one that never made sense until you were out? Was there one that seemed to sum it all up after you left? One that made your departure the right thing to do?

  Any number of scenarios...what scripture spoke the most clearly for you as you discovered the WTS
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  13

  Help with 1914!

  by izobcenec in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am discussing about the year 1914 with my dub friend...he insists, that the year 607 is scriptural,.

  because 607+70 is 537, when israelis returned to their land.

  i presented all the evidence about 586/87.

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  Gig

  One idea would be to ask your JW friend to show you ANY dates in the Bible, perhaps starting with 1935 when heaven was closed by Rutherford. There is no Bible chronology per se, it ALL depends on historical records that exist in the Bible as kings and their reigns, along with tens of thousands of tablets and business records confirming them. There's a web site, SOS outreach if I remember correctly, that lists legitimate sources that establish 586/87 for the fall of Jerusalem, appropriately 607 sources. Ask your friend to offer one, just one, other than the WTS that says it was 607. Also include the WTS quote that basically says that yes, some secular historians and the scholars of christendom agree that 586/87 is the correct date, but that no one can deny that yet undiscovered evidence may be found that refutes all existing evidence. It's not a difficult arguement to show how flimsy and unreasonable it is to rely on totally unsupported claims because MAYBE in the future evidence MIGHT be found that would overturn TENS OF THOUSANDS of items of EXISTING proof. And the claim that SOME historians and scholars say 86/87, no, ALL historians and scholars. The simple fact is the WTS will ignore comprehensive and overwhelming proof in order to avoid admitting error, error that in this case debases the teaching of Christ's return, and far more importantly that shortly thereafter chose the WTS as his FDS.

  So again, my basic suggestion is to show that there are NO dates in the Bible, so we rely on historians and scholars by necessity, who are unanimous. It is far more reasonable to see that the WTS cannot admit the 607 error because it removes their claim to FDS fame.
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  13

  Another only one

  by Gig in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it was just brought to my attention that herbert armstrong and the worldwide church of god are yet another "only us" religion.

  have any of you ever studied him and his teachings and found similarities to the wt and gb?

  this could prove helpful to me as my jw friend is familiar with armstrong having attended there as a child.

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  Gig

  It was just brought to my attention that Herbert Armstrong and the Worldwide Church of God are yet another "only us" religion. Have any of you ever studied him and his teachings and found similarities to the WT and GB? This could prove helpful to me as my JW friend is familiar with Armstrong having attended there as a child. She probably wouldn't know the similarities and it could be a tactical surprise for her slowly opening eyes.
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  44

  See Ya.

  by CoolBreeze in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi guys.

  due to some positive changes in my life, i won't be reading or posting to the boards much anymore ... if at all.

  i may peek in once in a while and drop a line.

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  Gig

  I believe I know how you feel. Peace be with you.