Oubliette

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Posts by Oubliette

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  45

  Many Member Just Want to Believe

  by OnTheWayOut in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if you are/were an active jw, you are now here on jwn so, for whatever your reasons, you woke up to some degree- hopefully a great degree.

  so what i am saying may not apply to you.. i know that if i had not already left, i would have stormed out on the day they studied "overlapping generation.

  " i am quite confident i couldn't have stayed for such an obvious switcharoo just to make the end seem imminent and try to explain how wts was wrong, but not entirely wrong in the past.. but i had to wonder how that change (or others) didn't cause most jw's to walk out.

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  Oubliette

  Phizzy: It took a personal crisis to get me to that point, and I think that is what it will take for most people, at least for those who chose as adults to join. It takes a lot to break through the cognitive dissonance, that is why it's so hard to break through to a believing JW.

  This is a very important statement.

  It was certainly true in my case. When I think about those that have woken up and left the religion, they all had to go through some sort of personal crisis that forced them to confront their beliefs and the unreality and lack of logic or coherence which characterize those beliefs. That often propagates its own personal crisis. It's a process to be sure.
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  45

  Many Member Just Want to Believe

  by OnTheWayOut in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if you are/were an active jw, you are now here on jwn so, for whatever your reasons, you woke up to some degree- hopefully a great degree.

  so what i am saying may not apply to you.. i know that if i had not already left, i would have stormed out on the day they studied "overlapping generation.

  " i am quite confident i couldn't have stayed for such an obvious switcharoo just to make the end seem imminent and try to explain how wts was wrong, but not entirely wrong in the past.. but i had to wonder how that change (or others) didn't cause most jw's to walk out.

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  Oubliette

  OTWO, great thread. Really good thought provoking stuff.

  Ultimately it comes down to this: wanting to believe something does not make it so. We should demand evidence, real evidence. Not the illusion or suggestion of evidence such as using the word "evidently" or others like it as if they are the same as real proof.

  Hassan suggests that the best way to get someone to wake up and recognized their in a cult is to gently and slowly point out the logical flaws and fallacies of other religions that are identical to those in whatever cult they are in, in this case: JWs. NEVER ATTACK THEIR BELIEFS DIRECTLY! That will only invoke their cult personality and trigger "thought stopping" slogans.

  I also think that the teaching of critical thinking skills is another key component. Even then, there are no guarantees that any particular person will wake up. Some people really do want to be led.
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  16

  Are Jehovah's Witnesses A Cult?

  by What Now? in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i came across a great quote.... the distinction between cult and religion lies squarely in how those leaving or those wanting to leave are treated.. hits the nail on the head for me!.

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  Oubliette

  WhatNow, thanks for the reference!
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  10

  Some people called me Santa this weekend ... my wife calls me Satan

  by wannabefree in

  1. social
  2. family

  my mother's church was having a christmas breakfast this past weekend and needed a santa ... i volunteered.. these little ones thought i was the real deal and one is my child.

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  when we returned home she went right up to my wife and said ... "mom, santa is real!".

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  Oubliette

  Ho, ho, ho!

  This is a new twist on the "double life"!
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  406

  Goodbye JWD/JWN (my last post)

  by slimboyfat in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  after some considerable thought i have decided that i will no longer post on this forum because i want to return to jehovah.

  thank you for all the kindness and many interesting discussions over the years.

  i wish you all well in the future and the decisions you make.

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  Oubliette

  Slimboy, ditto what Phizzy said!
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  23

  The best way to debate JW's without being labeled an apostate

  by cookiemaster in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hey guys!

  here's what i found to be the best way (for me at least) to debate jw's without earning the laber of apostate.

  this is mostly valid when debating jw's that don't know you personally, but it could help with those that do too.

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  Oubliette

  I prefer the approach Billy the ex-Bethelite discussed: pretend someone else--a friend, relative, workmate, someone in "the ministry"--asked the question and you were stumped.

  • exJW Psychology 102--How to Ask a Question When Questions Aren't Allowed

  It's gold!
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  16

  Are Jehovah's Witnesses A Cult?

  by What Now? in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i came across a great quote.... the distinction between cult and religion lies squarely in how those leaving or those wanting to leave are treated.. hits the nail on the head for me!.

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  Oubliette

  WN, what/who is the source of this quote?
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  31

  Why do ultra rich jehovahs witnesses get a free pass when it comes to being materialistic?

  by hoser in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i know a couple of jws in my town that are both very wealthy.

  one has upscale retail stores and owns a property development company.

  the other has a large service company and owns a lot of real estate.

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  Oubliette

  I think you know the answer to that question!
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  57

  Couple questions....like if JW's not the right way then what is?

  by world in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  new member here so don't attack :d here is a couple questions i have been contemplating lately.. .

  if jw isn't the right religion, then which one is?

  or is it basically believe in god, the bible and you'll be fine?.

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  Oubliette

  Welcome!

  You've already gotten a lot of really good responses.

  But I will add these questions: Is it reasonable to speak of "The Truth" as if it were a physical thing that can only be possessed by one person or even a single group? Does that even make any sense?

  An honest consideration of these questions leads inevitablty to only one answer for both: No.

  An equally honest examination of the Jehovah's Witness religion quickly reveals that it is not at all about spreading "Truth" as claimed, but it is about unquestioning obedience and loyalty to the organization.

  Learn to think for yourself. You'll be glad you did. And then you'll understand why that is the greatest crime a JW can commit.
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  18

  Today's wt "study" obfuscations

  by prologos in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  paragraph 9 : " jesus blood validates the new covenant -- makes posiible the forgiveness sins for all time#.-- [and]--.

  god could apply the value of jesus' shed blood to adams descendants--*.

  --he could** also adopt certain --humans "as sons"--".

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  Oubliette

  This doesn't sound like obfuscation as much as it is just weak speculation cobbled together by a bunch of weasal words.