"Those who raise questions about the God hypothesis and the soul hypothesis are by no means all atheists. An atheist is someone who is certain that God does not exist, someone who has compelling evidence against the existence of God. I know of no such compelling evidence. Because God can be relegated to remote times and places and to ultimate causes, we would have to know a great deal more about the universe than we do to be sure that no such God exists. To be certain of the existence of God and to be certain of the nonexistence of God seem to me to be the confident extremes in a subject so riddled with doubt and uncertainty as to inspire very little confidence indeed." - Conversations with Carl Sagan (2006), edited by Tom Head, p. 70
Oubliette
JoinedPosts by Oubliette
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The Privileged Planet: How Our Place in the Cosmos is Designed for Discovery by Guillermo Gonzalez and Jay Richards
by Slidin Fast insomeone raised this book/film to me recently as scientific argument for intelligent design.
i have neither read it or seen it as a film (i hesitate to classify it as a documentary).
having done a little research it seems to be at the least be viewed as controversial by the scientific community.
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Embarrassing relatives.
by Xanthippe inmy cousin phoned yesterday to tell me my jw sister sent her a sympathy card for her husband's death and tucked inside there was something else, she lowered her voice.
what was it i wondered?
a nice letter, pictures of her new grandchild (she lives many miles away)?
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Oubliette
Xanthippe, Sorry for your losses.
Family is weird, no doubt.
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The end
by Garrett inoh...my...god.... i can't.. well, i am officially done trying to explain things to them.
they talk in circles, and their excuse for everything is "imperfect men".
imperfect men!.
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Oubliette
Jehovah's organization has had to learn. They used to celebrate Christmas, the light gets brighter.
Really? Well let me know when "the lights" are all the way on.
In the meantime, while you all are sitting in a dimly lit room, I'm out here in the sunshine enjoying life.
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Happy Easter! (A Poem)
by Oubliette inhappy easter!
i suppose you think it's funny,this eating little bunnies!it's something of a habit,to dine on chocolate rabbit.in mexico it's holy,they call: conejo mole.but here we have to beg,just to find an easter egg!it's an enigma, a riddle, an ancient springtime curse;a question i must beg,propounded thus in verse:which came first: (tick, tock)the rabbit or the egg?- - - - - - - - - - -at first i was just sad,but now i'm really mad.in fact, i'm very, very cross,so for chrissake: knock it off!
oubliette.
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Oubliette
Happy Easter!
I suppose you think it's funny,
This eating little bunnies!
It's something of a habit,
To dine on chocolate rabbit.
In Mexico it's holy,
They call: Conejo Mole.
But here we have to beg,
Just to find an Easter Egg!
It's an enigma, a riddle,
an ancient Springtime curse;
A question I must beg,
Propounded thus in verse:
Which came first:
(tick, tock)
The Rabbit or the Egg?- - - - - - - - - - -
At first I was just sad,
But now I'm really mad.
In fact, I'm very, very cross,
So for Chrissake: KNOCK IT OFF!
Oubliette
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WT addresses the "rapture" teaching.
by wifibandit inlook at paragraph 15 of the 2015 july 15th study edition pg 18-19.. http://imgur.com/3wparys.
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basically they admit to teaching the rapture (for the anointed remnant), just don't call it that!.
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Oubliette
Does this mean there will be a "rapture" of the anointed ones? Many in Christendom believe, according to this teaching, that Christians will be bodily caught up from the earth." - Watchtower, July 15, 2015, p. 18, paragraph 15 - [Emphasis added]
Um, does anybody really believe that "the rapture" will mean their physical body will go to heaven? I never heard anyone that believes in the rapture express this idea.
I suppose it's possible, but I really think this is just another example of the WT misrepresenting the beliefs of other faiths. At the very least, it's painting "Christendom" with a broad brush. The use of the word "many" (in "Many in Christendom ...") is totally a weasel word, "creating an impression that a specific and/or meaningful statement has been made, when only a vague or ambiguous claim has been communicated, enabling the specific meaning to be denied if the statement is challenged."
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WT addresses the "rapture" teaching.
by wifibandit inlook at paragraph 15 of the 2015 july 15th study edition pg 18-19.. http://imgur.com/3wparys.
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basically they admit to teaching the rapture (for the anointed remnant), just don't call it that!.
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Oubliette
Cofty: They can't wait for the "persecution".
Tell them to come over to my house. I'll give 'em an advance preview!
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The Watchtower are Right About Blood...
by cofty in... but, they fail to take note of one important detail.. i believe that if we are going to have any chance of reasoning with a jw about blood, this is the place we need to begin.. don't try to convince them that it was only a dietary law.
it wasn't, and they will never go along with it.. don't tell them that saving a life is more important than obeying a law, even a seemingly trivial one.
they take pride in obedience.
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Oubliette
Cofty and Faye, you both raise very important points.
It's interesting that there are a wide variety of "First Issues" that get those of us that have awaken to begin questioning JW doctrine.
The blood doctrine wasn't a big issue for me as it was for you. I do remember having a huge--make that HUGE--argument with my now ex-wife about it.
When the WTBTS society changed its policy to allowing fractions I was immediately on board, knowing full well that whole blood transfusions are almost never used.
She stubbornly insisted that she would "never take any blood products" and that was that. She filled out her Advance Medical Directive (No Blood Card) accordingly. I said, "Fine, if you're in a medical situation that requires blood to save your life, you will die and the children and I will miss you. But if we are in such a situation we will accept whatever it takes to save our lives."
Returning to my initial point of this post, it would be great if somehow we could know just what would be the one issue that would get any particular JW to start questioning. (For me it was the UN/NGO scandal).
The problem is this: even when a JW is ready to begin questioning, they will rarely, if ever, voice any clues to another person due to the intense indoctrination which keeps so many captive.
And frankly, even if they did, those of us here are so far out we'd be the last to know it.
We do know, however, that many such "Ready To Awaken" JWs lurk here all of the time. So it's good that we discuss a number of different topics and issues. It's also important to keep in mind that, although the majority of our discussions are among those of use either well-out of the religion or at least receptive to entertaining dissenting thoughts--there are newbies lurking in the background.
If we keep these points in mind our posts can be thoughtful and powerful not just for those of us participating in any given discussion or debate, but also for those observing from the sidelines.
Oubliette
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WT addresses the "rapture" teaching.
by wifibandit inlook at paragraph 15 of the 2015 july 15th study edition pg 18-19.. http://imgur.com/3wparys.
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basically they admit to teaching the rapture (for the anointed remnant), just don't call it that!.
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WT addresses the "rapture" teaching.
by wifibandit inlook at paragraph 15 of the 2015 july 15th study edition pg 18-19.. http://imgur.com/3wparys.
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basically they admit to teaching the rapture (for the anointed remnant), just don't call it that!.
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Oubliette
I'd be willing to bet that if you asked a random sampling of JWs if they believe in "The Rapture" the overwhelming majority would say that they do not. It might even be unanimous.
These articles prove conclusively that the WT teaches this doctrine, it just doesn't call it that. This is evidence that the average JW doesn't even know or understand what they supposedly "believe."
In truth, JWs "beliefs" are not their own; they "believe" whatever they are told to believe even if they can't keep up with what that exactly is at any given moment.
Let's review: It's a cult!
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WT addresses the "rapture" teaching.
by wifibandit inlook at paragraph 15 of the 2015 july 15th study edition pg 18-19.. http://imgur.com/3wparys.
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basically they admit to teaching the rapture (for the anointed remnant), just don't call it that!.
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Oubliette
Interesting.
Check out this thread from two years ago, also from the July 15th issue of that year, 2013: