Posts by Oubliette

233

What is BELIEF ?

by EdenOne in

stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.

what exactly is "belief"?.

is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?

Oubliette

FMF: Lack of belief in god is not a claim that there is NO god. This is where people can't understand atheists.

Yes.

Imagine a person is accused of committing a brutal murder. During the trial, evidence is presented by both sides, the prosecution and the defense, to the jury.

At the conclusion of the trial, the jury deliberates. One juror says, "I believe he is innocent." Another says, "I do not believe he is guilty."

Although these may superficially seem to be equivalent statements, they are not. Juror #1 is asserting that the evidence presented convinced her of the accused's innocence, whereas Juror #2 is stating that the evidence was not enough to persuade her of his guilt beyond the proverbial reasonable doubt.

It is similar when people discuss their belief about whether or not God exists.

Some assert a belief that there is no God. God does not exist.

Others may state that they do not believe God exists. These are not equivalent statements.

"I believe there is no God," is not equal to: "I do not believe in God."

I've quoted it before on this forum, but I think it's appropriate to repeat it here, Carl Sagan's thoughts on the subject:

Those who raise questions about the God hypothesis and the soul hypothesis are by no means all atheists. An atheist is someone who is certain that God does not exist, someone who has compelling evidence against the existence of God. I know of no such compelling evidence. Because God can be relegated to remote times and places and to ultimate causes, we would have to know a great deal more about the universe than we do to be sure that no such God exists. To be certain of the existence of God and to be certain of the nonexistence of God seem to me to be the confident extremes in a subject so riddled with doubt and uncertainty as to inspire very little confidence indeed. - Conversations with Carl Sagan (2006), edited by Tom Head, p. 70

The subject of evidence, what it is and what it is not, is another subject for another time.

233

What is BELIEF ?

by EdenOne in

stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.

what exactly is "belief"?.

is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?

Oubliette

Simon: we don't believe the pope is some divine representative of an imaginary super-being.

But some people do.

25

Today's (4/12) WT study - all about Jesus

by OneEyedJoe in

today's watchtower study article is all about jesus.

this stuck out to me after a year of hanging out on here where one frequent point of criticism is that jws claim to be christians but never talk about jesus.. anyone think it's a coincidence that today was the "special talk" follow-up to the memorial?

i think not - this is the most attended sunday meeting of the year, complete with many ubms, studies, and miscellaneous other potential victims who have been subjected to a coordinated effort to pressure them into attending.

Oubliette

OEJ: Anyone who doesn't think jws use deceptive recruiting tactics should think again.

I don't think there are many of those people on this forum.

233

What is BELIEF ?

by EdenOne in

stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.

what exactly is "belief"?.

is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?

Oubliette

Note in the above definitions, it is not a requirement that something be TRUE for it to be a belief, only that an individual accepts it as such.

Words have meaning based on context.

In communication, it is the obligation of the originator of a message to ensure that they say what they mean. They should also be sure that their message is worded clearly and in a form understandable by the person(s) they are communicating to. Most people are not very good at this.

It is also the obligation of the receiver of a message to try to, in good faith, understand what the communicator is trying to say. Most people are also not very good at this.

When you consider these facts, it's amazing that we ever get anything straight.

233

What is BELIEF ?

by EdenOne in

stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.

what exactly is "belief"?.

is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?

Oubliette

be·lief

bəˈlēf/

noun: belief; plural noun: beliefs

an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.
"his belief in the value of hard work"
- something one accepts as true or real; a firmly held opinion or conviction.
  "contrary to popular belief, Aramaic is a living language"
synonyms:
opinion, view, conviction, judgment, thinking, way of thinking, idea, impression, theory, conclusion, notion
"it's my belief that age is irrelevant"
a religious conviction.
"Christian beliefs"
synonyms : ideology, principle, ethic, tenet, canon; More
doctrine, teaching, dogma, article of faith, creed, credo
"traditional beliefs"
trust, faith, or confidence in someone or something.
"a belief in democratic politics"
synonyms: faith, trust, reliance, confidence, credence
"belief in the value of hard work"

29

Mystery Letters of "Human Apostate" talk 2013 summer convention and its connection to Lev.5:1

by Bill Covert in

greetings from redding calif. my name is bill covert.

i am one of those viet nam war felons for having to refuse communtiy service in lieu of military induction per direct instructions from ny, so i have been around for a while.

i am the writer of the letters mentioned in the human apostate talk of the 2013 conventions.

Oubliette

Hi Bill,

Your OP is confusing.

Your write about a particular comment in an old WT which was changed when the bound volumes were made:

It was removed when that WT was made into the bound volume, thus a deception being made.

Posters on this site have pointed out countless examples of such WT revisions. They're as common as dandelions in a summer field.

THERE IS ABSOLUTLY NO BIBLE basis for the WBTS 'Gestapo' policy of having brothers inform on their brothers, this is a DECEPTION.

Correct. Did you not know: It's a cult!

But I gotta' say, I'm really unsure why you would write this:

And you have an entire elder body refusing to honor the instructions of Lev.5:1.

First you say there is not "Bible basis" for JWs to turn other JWs in and then you get upset that some JWs won't do it.

It appears you want it both ways.

That being said, that this religion is filled with and run by corrupt individuals is well-known to all of us here. You're preaching to the choir, buddy.

You are apparently very angry over what you've seen and what has personally been done to you. I get that. You're not alone. Many of us here have suffered similarly.

Oubliette

3

Have we been affected by a "cult"?

by stuckinarut2 in

here is a great list of questions that help identify if we have been affected by a cult..... does any of it sound familiar?.

this has been taken from an interesting and informative site called:.

as a general outline we use the following criteria that defines a cult or mind control situation:.

Oubliette

-

The distinction between cult and religion lies squarely in how those leaving or those wanting to leave are treated - Eliyahu Federman

-

233

What is BELIEF ?

by EdenOne in

stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.

what exactly is "belief"?.

is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?

Oubliette

“Everybody's got to believe in something. I believe I'll have another beer.” ― W.C. Fields

45

Being in a cult - what good did it do?

by Garrett in

jw
friends

so, here's a bit of a different point of view.

while most of us will agree that our time within the jw cult was rather terrible, however, i'd like to look at another aspect.

did anything good come out of being in a cult and then waking up from it?.

Oubliette

I'm sure most, if not all of us, would agree that we did have good experiences while we were JWs.

But those were in spite of being in a cult, not because of it.

Also, many, if not all, of those experiences can be had outside of JW-land.

For example, I gained experience in public speaking and realized that I enjoyed teaching as a result of being an elder and conducting the TMS for over a decade. This encouraged be to get a BA and a teaching credential.

This was something I wanted to do BEFORE I became a JW but put aside for the obvious reasons.

It should also be obvious that most teachers do this without ever being a JW. Also, as you no doubt know, getting any kind of higher education is strongly discouraged by the WT leaders. I received a lot of flak as a result, from fellow elders and even my wife at the time.

So really, the best thing I got from being in this religion was affirmation that I should never have joined it in the first place. The next best thing I got was out.

The short answer to your question the in: No.

12

Paranormal activity in a room at Ohio University

by economy in

why this room (no 428), located at ohio university, is unavailable to students?.

it has been boarded up and closed off because of various paranormal reports regarding the room.

poltergeist activity has been felt: objects flying across the room, doors that open and shut by themselves, and dark shadows appearing and disappearing without explanation.

Oubliette

The majority of Carl Jung's most interesting ideas are decidedly unscientific.