Posts by joe_from

55

UN sends reply to my inquiry about WTS NGO association- proof at last!

by joe_from_kokomo in

dear friends:.

it's been a while since i posted last, even though i probably still suffer with a newbie status, i did some dandy postings a few months back.

my wife and i are now approaching the 1 year anniversary of our split with the wtbts, and are quite happy with our decision.. one thing we did last year was to write to the u.n directly (i think i got the address from a posting here on this site) and asked specific and direct questions about the wts's involvement and knowledge of ngo requirements.

joe_from_kokomo

Here is the actual copy of the letter with my last name removed from the salutation and my full name and address cropped off the bottom. I tried to keep the resolution and image quality as good as possible, as some of the copies online are not too clear. Please note that there is a typo in the date - the actual date should read 2004, not 2003 (guess this person has not made the mental switchover yet, a common malady). I will also try to post seperately the envelope, so you can see that this bears the UN postmark and this week's date.

7

Follow up on our Baptism Nullification letter

by joe_from_kokomo in

dear friends:.

some of you have pm'd me while i was away from this site, wanting to know how everything worked out after sending in our baptism nullification letters to the local kh and the society.

(search on baptism nullification to find these postings if you want the details, even a sample of the letter we used).. well, in a word: great.

joe_from_kokomo

Dear Friends:

Some of you have PM'd me while I was away from this site, wanting to know how everything worked out after sending in our Baptism Nullification letters to the local KH and the Society. (Search on Baptism Nullification to find these postings if you want the details, even a sample of the letter we used).

Well, in a word: GREAT. While it is clear that the members of our old congregation do not wish to associate with us, that some kind of marking took place, we are not disfellowshipped or disassociated. We still have free association with our relatives in "the truth".

Now, I have to be honest, here. Our relatives in the "truth" DO speak to us, and do not treat us as dead people, but it would be an exaggeration to say they come by frequently or call frequently. They don't.

But, that's better than them not being able to speak to us at all. It is at least a tolerable situation for both them and us. If we want to, we can call them or write them, but we don't do that often either, really, for fear of making them or ourselves uncomfortable.

We bump into people from other nearby congregations and they seem totally unaware, even after 9 months of French leave, that we are not JWs anymore. So, those folks still speak to us freely. The ones from our local congregation, where I served as a prominent upstanding brother in the lead, do not speak to us unless spoken to first and in front of other people in public places. Yes, to them we have become the Invisible Man and the Invisible Woman. But, again, this is the price of Freedom.

Also, the phone calls stopped (thank God for caller ID), and no more visits at the door. If we get one, I will wave my new UN NGO letter at them (see other post today) as proof of the hypocrisy that drove us to leave.

Would I recommend this BN resignation letter method to others? YES. DEFINITELY. And I owe a big THANK YOU to Maverick for his posting that inspired our own plagiarized version of his original BN Letter. The WTS has decided to leave us be, and we couldn't be happier about that!

We love having Monday evenings, Thursday evenings, Saturday mornings and ALL DAY Sunday to sleep in and work on whatever suits our fancy. It is so wonderful. Now, don't think me a pagan-slug-couch-potato-heathen, folks. I devote a good deal of time to volunteer work that benefits many other people. But, we have not been to the KH since the Memorial, and we will never go back again. Never. Ever.

We do miss our old "fair weather friends". We don't blame them for steering clear of us. But, we do miss them. It's too bad our relationships ultimately depended upon the constant approval of a group run by Brooklyn hypocrites. But, I guess we should have known that all along. We shouldn't have been so naive.

And our shoe leather is lasting longer, and we aren't wearing out our vehicles and tires anymore. Haven't worn a suit since the last funeral I went to, and stopped wearing ties altogether. Even grew a beard. Loosing weight from not sitting on my ass in meetings all the time.

Best of all, I don't ever have to read another chapter in that damnable Isaiah book!

Life is good. Life without the Watchtower that is.

Take care all.

55

UN sends reply to my inquiry about WTS NGO association- proof at last!

by joe_from_kokomo in

dear friends:.

it's been a while since i posted last, even though i probably still suffer with a newbie status, i did some dandy postings a few months back.

my wife and i are now approaching the 1 year anniversary of our split with the wtbts, and are quite happy with our decision.. one thing we did last year was to write to the u.n directly (i think i got the address from a posting here on this site) and asked specific and direct questions about the wts's involvement and knowledge of ngo requirements.

joe_from_kokomo

Dear Friends:

It's been a while since I posted last, even though I probably still suffer with a Newbie status, I did some dandy postings a few months back. My wife and I are now approaching the 1 year anniversary of our split with the WTBTS, and are quite happy with our decision.

One thing we did last year was to write to the U.N directly (I think I got the address from a posting here on this site) and asked specific and direct questions about the WTS's involvement and knowledge of NGO requirements. At that time, we had in hand the TIF files that are copies of other people's letters from the UN, but it was not "real proof" in our minds, since as anyone knows, you can take a copy of anything and change it with Photoshop to look like something else, with just some time and creativity.

Here is the body of our letter to the UN, which I don't mind sharing with you. We sent it on May 31st, 2003:

...We would appreciate if you could take a moment to answer a few important questions for us about this matter. We apologize in advance, as we are aware that you must have by now answered these same questions to many others, time and time again, but it is important to us to see this in print from your organization for verification that the information we have been given is correct.

Here are the questions we would like you to address in a written reply, please. We have enclosed a self-addressed, stamped envelope to help defray some of the cost for you.

Questions about the Watchtower's NGO participation:

1. Is it true that the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc., or any of its Watchtower affiliate corporations, were affiliated as a United Nations NGO (Non Governmental Organization) between 1992 and 2001?
2. Is it true that there are specific requirements that an NGO must meet to qualify as an NGO, or to continue to qualify as an NGO? Can you provide us with a copy of those NGO qualifications?
3. Is it possible, as the Watchtower Society alleges, that they became a UN NGO solely to obtain a library card, or to access your libraries or archives? Or, better put, does an organization need to become an NGO to obtain library and/or archive access? Please explain, if possible.
4. Is it true that the Watchtower Society terminated its association from the UN as an NGO in 2001? Please provide any details you may have about the reason for their termination.
We thank you in advance for your time and effort in answering these questions, as this information means a great deal to my family.

So, being ever the skeptics, we sent in our letter along with a SASE for return reply. Then we waited. And waited. And waited. And waited. And finally, we gave up. 3 or 4 months had gone by with not a word from the folks at the UN. We finally decided that we were just not going to get a reply to our letter - that they were probably swamped with too many similar requests. Well, we were half right.

In today's mailbox was a letter from the U.N., New York, NY. I almost fainted. I knew right away what it would say, but waited hours to open it, for some reason. Maybe I did not really want to know the truth as badly as I used to. Perhaps I had stopped giving a damn anyway. I had not posted here for weeks, and did not feel the need to think about the WTS or share my feelings anymore, really, with anyone. Opening the letter was like picking a big scab off of an old wound, now nearly healed. Yes, this was the hesitation - not wanting to reopen that wound.

But, finally, my curiousity got the best of me and I carefully opened and read the letter. There it was. Yes, I have my own letter that clearly and specifically states that the Watchtower and Bible Tract Society "was associated with the Department of Public Information in 1992 and requested to be disassociated in 2001." It went on to explain in two long paragraphs the specific details involved with being and maintaining NGO membership. Then it closed with this paragraph, which I will gladly share with you, as many of you are now wanting to know more about this - the truth about this dreadful hypocrisy. It says:

"I expect that you will share this information with your concerned colleagues as we are unable to address the scores of duplicate requests regarding the Watchtower and Bible Tract Society that are being directed to our offices. Than you for your interest in the work of the United Nations."

It was signed by Isolda S. Oca, Information Officer, NGO Section, Dept. of Public Information.

I note that they did not touch on question #3, which may have been too controversial for them.

Friends, I am not making this up. I had stopped posting until I got this letter today, as other interests are now reshaping our lives and the healing process is well on its way. But, I felt it important to share this with those of you who did not get a reply, who never thought to even write the UN for one, or who will wait, as we did, 7 1/2 months or more... or maybe indefinitely.

The story is TRUE. Some, like my sister-in-law, still in "the Truth", will probably still doubt even a clear Xerox of the letter with my name on it. They'll think I made it with Photoshop somehow. But, I can assure you the letter I have is a real one, with a real UN letterhead on it.

Yes, "the truth will set you free". We now feel ever more relieved, even vindicated, knowing that the stance we took, which caused us so much stress, sadness, grief, and now months later, great loneliness, was a stand for the truth. And we know that the Jehovah we learned to worship will stand by those who stand for the truth, and tolerate no hypocrisy, no wickedness and no lies.

We hope that by sharing this with those of you still searching, we can help you to know what to do, too.

Take care.

Joe From Kokomo.

8

I'm looking for info on military service....

by Wolfgirl in

...and the flip-flopping of doctrine when it comes to conscientious objecting.

i'm coming up empty.

or rather, i should say, i'm coming up with a bazillion threads about iraq.. can someone help me find it?

joe_from_kokomo

Many of us think that the key point that can be made about anything to do with the military is the fact that the WTS has owned about 50% of the stock in the Rand Engine Corporation and its sister companies, which make smart drone military planes and drone helicopters. This cancels out any rhetoric they ever put in print on the subject, since they have been knowingly profiting from the sale of military hardware for many years.

Put that in their pipe and tell 'em to smoke it.

1

Mags on tape

by Eyebrow2 in

several years ago i was going to college full time.

i also was a single mom, so i needed to work...i took on a 7 day paper-route...drove at least 65 miles everday from 2 to 6 am...not a lot of money, but i needed the daytime for school...and godforbid i miss any meetings.

i must admit i really enjoyed them at the time.. anywhoo...i requested a subscription to both the watchtower and awake so i could keep up with my mags while i was working since i was following behind.

joe_from_kokomo

No, you're right on this point. The policy about the tapes is was ridiculous. It's all moot now, of course, since they have almost completely stopped issuing cassette tapes to anyone. This was issued as a policy guideline in late 2002 or early 2003, as I recall. So, no one gets tapes now, unless you're blind, unable to read Braille and bed-ridden.

Such a loving provision from Jehovah's organization - overscrutinize anyone wanting tapes and then cut them off altogether later to pinch a penny or two.

Last summer and during the fall, we would take our 'used' Awake tapes, (some of which we never listened to even once), and try to give them out to truckers at the roadside stops by the Interstate. The thought was that since most truckers don't read much, they might want a free cassette to listen to on the road.

It was not a very succesful mission - most of the truckers thought we were some kind of inspector when we approached their rigs with suit and tie on- and after a while this whole idea fizzled out, like a firecracker fuse in a rainstorm.

It's just another one of those many things that make me glad I am no longer in the Twuth. They can take those cheap-ass poor-quality iron oxide-coated tapes and stick 'em where the sun don't shine.

...And I don't gotta preach to no stupid, ignorant, indifferent heathen truck drivers anymore, either. Hooray.

10

WTS slanders world famous rock n roll band - the truth revealed

by joe_from_kokomo in

you have probably heard the excerpt in a talk at your kingdom hall.

it has been inserted in more than one outline, and although it sounds pretty dated by now, it is still in use.

we started attending in 1995 (we're out now), but i can recall hearing this same story told at least 5 or 6 times by different brothers in their sunday morning talk:.

joe_from_kokomo

You have probably heard the excerpt in a talk at your Kingdom Hall. It has been inserted in more than one outline, and although it sounds pretty dated by now, it is still in use. We started attending in 1995 (we're out now), but I can recall hearing this same story told at least 5 or 6 times by different brothers in their Sunday morning talk:

It goes something like this:

"...the rock bands of today are inspired by Satan and under his demonic influence. One famous rock band which became popular in the late 1970s, KISS, has a name that means "Knights In Satan's Service."

As one very familiar with rock n roll before I became a Witness, that statement threw me when I first heard it uttered from the platform, but I dismissed it. Later, I came to believe it was probably true.

But, was it? Did the name of the rock band KISS really mean "Knights In Satan's Service"?

The answer can be found in Gene Simmon's own autobiographical book, "KISS and Make-Up", which gives readers a fascinating behind-the-scenes look at this world famous rock group. While I am no longer a KISS fan, (as I admit I was for a brief period when I was 16 years old and KISS were at their peak), I still believe that the truth is important, even in the least of things. Note what Gene Simmons, bassist and founder of KISS states about this matter in his book:

"At that time, misinformation about the band began to spread in the southern Bible Belt states, including a rumor that the name KISS stood for Knights In Satan's Service, and that the four of us were devil worshippers...this rumor started as the result of an interview I gave in Circus Magazine after our first album...the comment seemed to ignite the whole idea that in some way KISS was aligned with devil worship."

"When I was asked whether I worshipped the devil, I simply refused to answer for a number of reasons: the frist reason, of course, was that it was good press. Let people wonder. The other reason was my complete disregard for the people who were asking. The religious fanatics who were asking these questions didn't deserve the time of day..."

So, once again, the Watchtower society has been using a rumor- false information- to drive home yet another of their points to the flock. Once again, they failed to get their facts straight first, even in the littlest things. What do you think?

1

"the truth" has them coming and going...

by joe_from_kokomo in

in a recent article from christianity today, they quote that christians are more "mobile" today, and they pack up and go somewhere else whenever they so choose.

(although i know quite a few who are too psychologically immobilized to do this.

according to their article found here: http://www.christianitytoday.com/le/2003/003/19.7.html, 32% of jws left and 39% joined.

joe_from_kokomo

In a recent article from Christianity Today, they quote that Christians are more "mobile" today, and they pack up and go somewhere else whenever they so choose. (Although I know quite a few who are too psychologically immobilized to do this.)

According to their article found here: http://www.christianitytoday.com/le/2003/003/19.7.html, 32% of JWs left and 39% joined. (They actually quote a confusing fractional number, too, without a common denominator, which is "one-third of their members leave the group, and two-fifths join from another religion..." I recalculated that this is 5/15s LEAVE and 6/15ths JOIN, which is about dead even in my book, at least if you cutting up pieces of some figurative membership pie. Or was that a symbolic membership pie? I am confusing myself now...)

In any case, me wonders from whence their demographics cometh... Did ole JR Brown give them these figures or did they call up some local Kingdom Halls? I seriously doubt that the tight-lipped home office would give out this information, so I really have to wonder how accurate it is. I would guess that the LEAVE numbers actually now exceed the JOIN numbers. Certainly that would be the case if they were not disfellowshipped or disassociated for choosing to go elsewhere.

Speaking as a new member of the 5/15ths French Leave slice, who chose Baptism Nullification as our exit strategy, (thanks again, Maverick), our family is getting happier every day.

We jus keep humming that ol' tune, "Going Mobile"...

15

My Secret Email Campaign -or- "Dozens Now Living will Now Know"

by joe_from_kokomo in

well, after our baptismal nullification letter, most of the witnesses snub us when we bump into them.

saw a snooty sister from my own book study, and she pretended i was the invisible man.. so, i decided to do a "maverick" and have launched a top secret email campaign to help raise the news iq of my former witness friends and family.. i have created a dummy email account at a major portal and i am bccing all my old witness friends and relatives (mostly relatives) hyperlinks to the juicy news articles on jws and the un, jws and child abuse, etc.

i put a simple subject line and a simple one line "read this article" followed by a hyperlink to the newspaper article.. it has been very effective.

joe_from_kokomo

Well, this posting kinda lingered for a few days and got a 2nd wind - I thought it was being overlooked...

Thanks to all for your positive comments. Please know that this is not about spamming anyone, but about edification, providing important news that will never ever be heard from the KH podium...

More comments:

Rocketman, et al: Yes, it is an interesting thing, and some have PM'd me their emails to use. It's really all about creating cognitive dissonance. This is planting a seed of truth/reality. Anonymously, as any dub will reject apostate material if they know for a fact it is apostate... but, a CNN news article???

Ignored One: Thanks for your tip, and YES, Google News Search is exactly where I am looking for current events. Those links from last week about child abuse were doozies...

BluesBro: appreciate your comment, too. I didn't get PM'd very many email addresses, and i can understand if some are squeamish to do so, but this is FALLING DOWN EASY to do yourself, if you want to. Just create a hotmail account and MAKE SURE THAT IT DOES NOT HAVE YOUR REAL NAME in the email handle or that your real name is not readily available to a Hotmail or Yahoo or whatever subscriber. Test by emailing yourself... Then paste the email addresses in the BCC field and press send. For some sites, you may have to have a TO: address, but you can just put your own anonymous email address in the TO: field and send yourself a copy, and then BCC everyone else, so that no one knows who else is on your list. He he he.

Just a nice little private email news service... creating cognitive dissonance and planting seeds, some on fertile ground....

As Ignored One said "news sources are best", because everyone BELIEVES WHAT IS IN THE PAPER (or News Web site).Thanks again for your comments one and all!

15

My Secret Email Campaign -or- "Dozens Now Living will Now Know"

by joe_from_kokomo in

well, after our baptismal nullification letter, most of the witnesses snub us when we bump into them.

saw a snooty sister from my own book study, and she pretended i was the invisible man.. so, i decided to do a "maverick" and have launched a top secret email campaign to help raise the news iq of my former witness friends and family.. i have created a dummy email account at a major portal and i am bccing all my old witness friends and relatives (mostly relatives) hyperlinks to the juicy news articles on jws and the un, jws and child abuse, etc.

i put a simple subject line and a simple one line "read this article" followed by a hyperlink to the newspaper article.. it has been very effective.

joe_from_kokomo

Well, after our Baptismal Nullification letter, most of the Witnesses snub us when we bump into them. Saw a snooty sister from my own book study, and she pretended I was the Invisible Man.

So, I decided to do a "Maverick" and have launched a top secret email campaign to help raise the news IQ of my former Witness friends and family.

I have created a dummy email account at a major portal and I am BCCing all my old witness friends and relatives (mostly relatives) hyperlinks to the juicy news articles on JWs and the UN, JWs and child abuse, etc.

I put a simple subject line and a simple one line "read this article" followed by a hyperlink to the newspaper article.

It has been very effective. I got a couple of "who are you" replies that I did not repond to, but so far they have not blocked my emails, which means they are likely reading them and this is creating cognitive dissonance. Like planting a little seed of truth and reality.

Anyway, I think it's a great idea. So, if you have a friend or relative that you would like me to include (please a limit of 2 per poster), let me know. No gag email addresses please, this is serious business.

I will not reveal my name to these folks nor send them anything but info on JWs.

And, if you have a nice hyperlink to suggest for the mailing list, let me know that, too. I sent out the original email link to the UK Guardian article on the UN and the JW Hypocrisy already (even though it's 2 years old, most witnesses are not aware of it), and I have sent out the CA child abuse newspaper article links, too.Again, they don't hear about this at the KH or from their friends, and technically, it's not apostasy- it's just news!

I think others may want to try the same thing. remember to make your email account anonymous and to use the BCC field so they cannot see all the other folks on your email list.

What are your thoughts??

17

Pro UN Awake articles & NGO application forms

by Noumenon in

greetings - can anyone confirm for me whether these articles were officially submitted by the watchtower society to the un (to keep up their ngo membership), or did the un just use these articles and post them on their website without the society necessarily having officially submitted them?

i guess the wts had to have given their consent somehow, as a minimum.

what are the mechanics of proving one is upholding un ideals to renew their library card membership?

joe_from_kokomo

This is a repost from an earlier link, as this article is more to the point of my posting, to wit:
I too agree that better proof should be available for the skeptics out there, and it probably is available to UN employees or researchers.

I took the time a couple of weeks ago to write to the UN, to their PR dept., requesting confirmation of the WT's UN affiliation. I even included a SSE envelope. 4 weeks and counting with no reply.

This is regretful, as I have a sister who is still IN and I would like to show her real and current proof, not blacked out letters that (forgive me for saying this) someone could have created with desktop publishing software (this is not my skeptical opinion, but you know how true dubs doubt such things).

I am the first to realize the UN is busying policeing the world, but I expected more out of the Wild Beast.

After all, I can remember several corny talks at the Kingdom Hall where a brother told some story about how the UN had "a secret plan that they readily admit to privately" to take over and abolish all forms of religion, since this was "the root cause of all war and human suffering". I bet some of you heard that same BS talk in some form or other.

Looks like to me the Wild Beast is asleep where the Watchtower is concerned... :)

Maybe Simon could register his Web site as an NGO so he can get a library card and get copies of the good stuff from the UN Library for us!!! Ha!

joe_from_kokomo

Posts by joe_from_kokomo