I used to...
Not since I read all the things on this board some books and checked it all out for myself. Ray's book especially.
I have no doubt whatsoever.
Posts by AlanB
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76Are You SURE JWs Don't Have The Truth???
by minimus inhas anyone here ever questioned whether or not they made the right decision to leave the "truth"?......i'm sure glad i'm out!
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Why the Watchtower is Similar to Communism
by metatron inunder soviet communism, the nation was ruled by a small group of elderly men, the politboro.
in the watchtower, the organization is ruled by a small group of elderly men, the governing body.
under communism, young people are encouraged to join the "red pioneers".
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AlanB
I always thought the WT pictures, especially the sort my Grandmother had from the 60's looked so much like socialist workers art. Happy peasants working the fields etc.
Interersting how the society uses the term Theocracy, which by definition is a system of government controled by religious leaders (literally rule by god). The muslim fundamentalist countries such as Iran are Theocracies.
I used this expression in a conversation on current affairs with my JW father and he objected to my use of the term. I explained that Iran is a totalitarian Theocracy where the thinking and lives are controlled by the religious leaders. He failed to see the irony.
OK, so I like to wind my father up, its such good sport.
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Do you REALLY know how crazy J. Rutherford was?
by gumby inbelow is an interview with the drunken, pipe-dreamin, selfish, psychopathic bastard back in 1930.. the interview with j.f.
rutherford that appeared in the sun diego sun, march 15, 1930. .
"but how will you identify king david or any of the other representatives from god?
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AlanB
Does anyone have a scan of the original news article.
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747
Rutherford Exposed: The Story of Berta and Bonnie
by Farkel init was made by a women who in later years wore crotchless panties and bras which had holes in the nipple areas.
he not only knew the woman in question (she's now deceased), he has met her numerous times.
up until recently this secret of her year's long sexual affair with rutherford was kept by the family.
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AlanB
Oh great post by the way, very well researched. Wasnt a lot of this in the 'Four Presidents'?
On a side note, a memory sparked from something said in this thread. I was at Twickenham many years ago (about 20) and went to the admin area to get info about serving where the need was great (great plan that turned out to be) anyway there were two elderly yet autstere brothers standing at the steps to the main office area looking as though they owned the place, they had a real air of seniority and importance about them, I have no idea who they were, yet sense they were senior one was English the other American..
As I approached them expecting the sort of warm brotherly welcome you believed you would get from all JW's, I was treated in a very off hand manner. I was left with a very bad feeling, I cannot explain it, it was more than how I was treated there was a very cold negative vibe coming from them.
Never forgot that and never experienced such a feeling again and I have been in many different situations in many countries and cultures.
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747
Rutherford Exposed: The Story of Berta and Bonnie
by Farkel init was made by a women who in later years wore crotchless panties and bras which had holes in the nipple areas.
he not only knew the woman in question (she's now deceased), he has met her numerous times.
up until recently this secret of her year's long sexual affair with rutherford was kept by the family.
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AlanB
It would make a great movie. The story of an egotistical maniac who wrestles control of a religion from it's founders, turns it into a book publishing empire, makes prophetical claims in the name of God, declares the end of the world and then is caught in compromising situations that goes against the teachings of the church, causing the resignation of the leader and the breakup of the church as the feds investigate it for fraud and tax evasion. Of course a murder has to take place somewhere along the way also.
Printed under the main title: "Based on a True Story".I have thought this a lot since learning the Truth about the... oh never mind....
The problem I have is this, how do you set such a film, there is so much scope.
Some ideas I have....
Orwellian parrallel, total fiction set in a cult setting yet drawing on JW doublspeak and scenario.
Real life drama, where would you set it, Just prior to 1974?, the purge of 1980? Rutherford era
Scenario from perspective of someone coming in then learning the truth and witnessing some terrible things before the final showdown at a JC?
Docudrama?
Do you name the witnesses and face lible actions? Easy to get around if you draw every quote from real life examples and their own literature, and check facts, then there is no lible.
So much to draw on, Peadop[hiles, failed prophecy, orwellian control, sex scandles at the Bethal, UN, 1914 facts, blood, mental breakdown, murders, intregue, spies, its got the lot......
Hmmmmm
Anyone from Hollywood reading, would make an excellent film.
The scope is huge.....
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How many were raised as a JW during their teenage years?
by codeblue in.
and how many of you feel because of that, you never really got to be a "teenager"?
codeblue
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AlanB
Yes.... and yes I experienced all that you describe..
I have been out around 10 years and grown a lot.
A friend said the other day that he feels I am a 'Late Developer'
That hurt, but he was right.
I regret that.
A
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WT Now actively encouraging Education Awake Oct 8th
by stillajwexelder intake a look at awake october 8th page 11 --- bullet point "try to get some education" "the wise are the ones that treasure up knowledge," says proverbs 10:14. while it is especially true of bible knowledge, it is also true of secular education.
you need to develop the necessary skills to make a living --------- .
--------- nicole was later able to get training to support herself as a paralegal.
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AlanB
This stuff Pisses me off.....
When I completed High School, my Father told me "You are NOT going to University!". Instead I got quite a good job, one that I would not have got a few years later without a degree. Even then there were many in the congregation who looked down on me for following a "Worldly Career" when the end is just round the corner.
20 years on......
At least my children who are being brought up at JW's will have the chance to go to University and will hopefully learn the shallow teachings of the WTS.
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WT on the Ropes, UK letter
by belbab inwt on the ropes.
today, sunday, july 14 has been a very eventful day here on the board.
we have seen the letter posted that was read out at kingdom halls in britain.
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AlanB
In Birmingham as in New Hampshire, the elders supported the accused. Even after Patti was convicted and sentenced to five years in jail, they didnt waver. At the next meeting in the Kingdom Hall the elders made sure the congregation knew where they stood.
Simon Brady (the teenage boy): There was an announcement given, saying as a body of elders, thats including every elder in Rubery, we feel as a body of elders basically this man is innocent, we believe hes innocent and the Bethel have informed us that they will do everything in their power to help this man.
BTTT
There is more to this story than meets the eye. I stall have contacts, cant say any more. However there is something that appears not right about this particular case (Rubery) and I am open to the idea that perhaps there may have been some miscarriage of justice in this particular case.
Just a thought, it is always possible. It as happenned in other environments where for example teachers have been accused. I cannot say more, only what was told me made me consider this as a possibility.
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Text from Ex, she has met some nice JW's and needs some advice. (must read)
by AlanB ini had a text message from an ex last week, she wanted to meet to discuss some jw's she had met that were really nice people but wanted some advice.
so the other night i drove over to a town in the north west of england to meet her and a really bizarre story unfolded.
we shall call our heroine julie who has recently moved into a new house along with her two children who we shall call janet and john, both children are in their early teens, julie is mid 30's.
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AlanB
I had a text message from an ex last week, she wanted to meet to discuss some JW's she had met that were really nice people but wanted some advice.
So the other night I drove over to a town in the North West of England to meet her and a really bizarre story unfolded.
We shall call our heroine Julie who has recently moved into a new house along with her two children who we shall call Janet and John, both children are in their early teens, Julie is mid 30's.
Shortly after moving in a tall dark handsome window cleaner, also in his mid 30's, turns up and establishes a window cleaning round in the new estate. It is no surprise that the window cleaner turns out to be a JW. Soon the JW window cleaner who we shall call Bill is coming in for a cup of tea and a chat and Bill makes it clear that he is religious and does talk about the bible a lot. There appears to be some attraction between Bill who is single and Julie. From what Julie has explained she is not imagining this.
Weeks go by and one night Julie is in a bar in town with a friend when she sees, Bill and two other men in the same bar. They come over and spend the evening as a group. All three are JW's and it appears that one of the other men, we shall call Ben is the uncle of Bill. Ben is in his mid 40's and appears to be almost a father figure for Bill. Eventually Ben leaves and the two other men are left in the company of Julie and her friend. Bill and Julie end up dancing, and although there is some attraction Bill seems uncomfortable with this.
After this Ben always seems to be around when Bill is cleaning the windows at Julie's house. They have a cup of tea afterwards and the bible is discussed, although interestingly no literature has been left at this stage. Julie says that she finds some of the things they say patronising. Bill told her that it must be so difficult for her being a catholic. Now Julie is not a devout catholic, however she does believe, sometimes goes to church, is trying to bring up he children with some values. Julie mentions that she used to go out with someone who was a Witness and left (i.e. me), Bill almost freaks out and tells her that I obviously was weak and did not have the faith. (Bleeding Cheek !!!!) Ben seems quite calm about it.
During this time, Julie finds out a bit about Bill & Ben. They have been witnesses for around 16 years, Bill joined when he was 17 and is a virgin. Ben it appears joined around the same time around the time his marriage broke up. Ben appears to have some problem since then trusting women. Bill spends some time with her children and they like him.
One Sunday Julie was coming out of church with her mother and children. The church happens to be round the corner from the Kingdom Hall. The children see Bill coming out of the hall and they go over to talk to him. Ben is in the car and appears very uncomfortable with the situation. Ben practically ignores Julie except just as he is getting into the car with Ben, he says to Julie, "I shall be round to do your windows next week".
Julie is confused about all of this. On the one hand, Bill does appear attracted to her and there has been some very minor flirting. When he is not with Ben he is more relaxed and more himself. When Ben is around he appears much different. Also she says that some of the things they say and the incident outside the hall makes her feel guilty or worthless.
I explained to Julie that she should not feel that way, that they are the ones with the problem not her. I explained that for her coming over to speak to someone she knew in the street was totally normal behaviour. I then explained why Bill and Ben would have felt uncomfortable about it and explained the situation from a witness perspective. I explained to her what it means to be a witness and how rigid their rules are and how they seek to convert people. I also explained the situation surrounding dating from their perspective and some of the alternative aspects of their history. I was able to answer a number of Julie?s questions and concerns. I know Julie well and she does not wish to become a JW, she knows that it would be bad for her and that they would attempt to force her into the JW mould, which would destroy her. I have seen this situation happen myself in my old congregation and know exactly how this would pan out.
The plot then thickens. Julie sees Bill in town and there is some more flirting, it is clear that Bill is interested, yet confused by it.
Later Julie has a problem with her son, around 14 he has got into some bad company and she is worried about this. One afternoon Bill turns up to do the windows, chaperoned by Ben. She explains the problem with her son and Ben goes out to the car and comes back with two YPA books. Bill goes upstairs to 'talk' to her son John. Whilst Bill is upstairs, Ben gets the other book and starts showing Julie some of the chapters on dating and crushes. !!!!! Julie is clear exactly why he is showing her these things.
When Bill returns downstairs, Ben tells he that they love them all and want to help them. He invites them out for a meal this weekend, Bill, Ben, Julie and the two children. This is why Julie wanted to talk to me as she wishes to understand what is going on.
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My analysis of the situation.
From Bills perspective.
I believe that Bill is interested in Julie and (as I have been there myself) fantasises that Julie and her children will become JW's so that he can date her properly. At this stage he has probably convinced himself that there is nothing wrong in this and may have convinced himself that this is how it will work out and that he can resist temptation.
From Ben's perspective.
There is something about Julie?s description of Ben that convinces me he has some responsibility in the congregation, MS at least. He is clearly concerned for Bill as he is obviously developing a crush on Julie. Ben would hope that Julie at least can become an 'Interested Person" then it would not be so awkward if they are seen talking outside the KH. Ben would also like Julie to study and become a JW as it would defuse the danger with Bill, and also what a great 'experience from the platform' when he can demonstrate how Julie, a single mother who had turned to drugs (bit of pot) and was 'so much happier' since finding the 'Truth'.
From the Congregations Perspective.
If the reality of the situation got out it would create a scandal of epic proportions that Bill had a crush on one of his window cleaning clients, a single mother into drugs and a catholic, had been seen dancing with her in a bar.
From Julie?s Perspective.
Julie is attracted to Bill and is convinced that he is himself when not in Ben's company. She respects his religion and is not intending to corrupt him. She does not wish to become a JW, nor does she wish to 'rescue' Bill as she believes she may end up with someone different. I do not believe she knows exactly what to do yet, although I think she is coming to the conclusion that she should leave well alone. She would value them as friends.
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We talked about this for hours and I was able to answer many of her questions and I was able to get a very good picture of the situation. I do find it a little odd that they would invite her out for a meal and am unsure of the differing agenda's from Bill and Ben?s perspective.
Julie will keep me informed and it will be interesting to see how this one pans out.
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"Un-baptism" questions please
by alamb inmy eldest child has asked to be baptized next month as a jw.
the court has ordered i have to give written permission if the child is under 18. .
i am going to consent, but only if she studies with me and can answer my baptism questions.
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AlanB
The court has ordered I have to give written permission if the child is under 18.
This is interesting, does this apply under English law? my children are younger teenagers and it would be useful to prevent them from getting BT until 18.
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