Posts by GrreatTeacher

59

How to wake up and reverse the trance???

by J-DUBBED in

how do you wake up someone taken from us by these screwed up people?.

our son was hooked by a jw at the age of 25. within 3 months they were married and we never even new about it.

he is now 29 and has nothing to do with his family(except his sister the odd time, when he needs something) of any freinds.. we are lost and have been for four years.. .

GrreatTeacher

You'll likely have to order the books online as they are a specialty nook. Try Amazon.

I think that when folks here talk about asking simple questions they mean to just take your natural WTF response to a particular subject and phrase it innocently and politely.

For example, when birthdays come up. I know, it's ridiculous. But, you could ask them who they don't celebrate birthdays. You know the response. But, then ask, "So no birthdays or anniversaries or anything?"

Then he'll explain that anniversaries are okay. ( I know, WTF, right?)

So innocently ask, "But aren't birthdays just the anniversary of your birth?"

Then, drop it. He will go on to try to wiggle out of that one, but in his mind will be a little seed of doubt that maybe the birthday ban really doesn't make sense at all.

But, get this, he won't admit that to you. He will think he has given you a fine witness. But, you will know that you have given him something to think about, and it will likely happen subconsciously over time. You are planting seeds that there are logical inconsistencies in his faith. He will hold these inconcistencies in tension with his professed beliefs of his faith and it will eventually get very uncomfortable for him. This discomfort is called cognitive dissonance. When it gets uncomfortable enough from you subtly pointing out things that don't make sense, he may consider the possibility that his belief system is incorrect.

That's just a small primer on the basics. I hope it helps. In essence, you show little bits at a time, but the goal is that he will put the pieces together on his own over time.

The danger is that cognitive dissonance between what you profess to believe and what you know to be logical can also be resolved by digging deeper and more entrenched in your beliefs and ignoring facts, which in this case is you, when folks are pushed too hard. So, don't turn on the faucet full blast. Be the drip!

8

IDEAL BATHROOMS

by TerryWalstrom in

jw
friends

i use to dream about designing a bathroom that was, well.

crazy.. today, i saw this photo and almost fell over.

obviously somebody else had the same dream!.

GrreatTeacher

Well, now we know the kind of luxury that Flipper and Flipper's Wife live in, and he invites us to a campground for the Lake Tahoe Apostafest??

3

Hey you are doing it backwards.

by donny in

"hey guy, aren't you doing things backwards in your spiritual life?".

this question or similar ones has been posed to me a few times over the years.

"most people i knew were agnostic when they were teens or young adults and then they become believers later on, but you seemed to have done it in reverse.".

GrreatTeacher

Good read. I've thought many of the same things. Thanks for sharing.

50

Freedom, Free speech, Censorship, Religion and Tight Pants

by Simon in

you would need to be living in a cave to not be aware of the turmoil happening in the world with groups like isis murdering cartoonists over their depiction of their prophet and sides being taken to either attack religion or to defend the right to practise it.. the battle lines appear to be drawn between those who believe in freedom and those who would see it curtailed to be replaced with their own version of what is and isnt acceptable.

most people want freedom and free speech but when choosing it are perhaps unconsciously judging it to only apply to things that they themselves believe in.. we need to be crystal clear what freedom and free speech were really talking about.

freedom itself is usually easier to define as there are some fundamental principles: you should be allowed to do what you want as long as you are not harming others.

GrreatTeacher

Well, Simon, who decides? Good point.

We can recognize a dangerous cult in the form of North Korea. That becomes a matter of national defense.

We regulate deceptive business practices like multi-level marketing and Ponzi schemes. Even monopolies are recognized as unfair.

But, it it doesn't involve defense or business, we can't seem to find the political will to do anything about it.

29

Had a major blow out

by freemindfade in

jw
friends

my mom was emailing a group thread of rhetoric about isis and armageddon, and i finally got sick of it and said some pretty intense harsh things about ideals, and wishing for armageddon.

then it went back and forth like some debate, all the while i am holding back unloading serious ttatt on my family.

i put a whole bunch of scriptures where the wonderful yahweh committed infanticide.

GrreatTeacher

I believe that Perry is of the belief that whatever God does is moral. Because he is God and is the source of all morality.

I know, sick and twisted, right?

50

Freedom, Free speech, Censorship, Religion and Tight Pants

by Simon in

you would need to be living in a cave to not be aware of the turmoil happening in the world with groups like isis murdering cartoonists over their depiction of their prophet and sides being taken to either attack religion or to defend the right to practise it.. the battle lines appear to be drawn between those who believe in freedom and those who would see it curtailed to be replaced with their own version of what is and isnt acceptable.

most people want freedom and free speech but when choosing it are perhaps unconsciously judging it to only apply to things that they themselves believe in.. we need to be crystal clear what freedom and free speech were really talking about.

freedom itself is usually easier to define as there are some fundamental principles: you should be allowed to do what you want as long as you are not harming others.

GrreatTeacher

Yes, I'm willing to give up my "choice" to join a cult. Because, accepting the work of Lifton and Sanger, it's not a choice at all. It's a careful program of mind, thought and behavior control that bypasses the rational, thinking self.

Yes, you have the freedom to choose your religion, but a cult is not a religion, though they hide under their right to freedom of religion in the US.

I would love to see them recognized and regulated as the danger they are to society.

29

Had a major blow out

by freemindfade in

jw
friends

my mom was emailing a group thread of rhetoric about isis and armageddon, and i finally got sick of it and said some pretty intense harsh things about ideals, and wishing for armageddon.

then it went back and forth like some debate, all the while i am holding back unloading serious ttatt on my family.

i put a whole bunch of scriptures where the wonderful yahweh committed infanticide.

GrreatTeacher

Unfortunately you can't out-argue crazy.

I have definitely drawn a line in the sand with my mother. I don't want to hear anything at all about "the truth." If she ventures there at all, she just gets silence from me.

She can't argue with herself.

50

Freedom, Free speech, Censorship, Religion and Tight Pants

by Simon in

you would need to be living in a cave to not be aware of the turmoil happening in the world with groups like isis murdering cartoonists over their depiction of their prophet and sides being taken to either attack religion or to defend the right to practise it.. the battle lines appear to be drawn between those who believe in freedom and those who would see it curtailed to be replaced with their own version of what is and isnt acceptable.

most people want freedom and free speech but when choosing it are perhaps unconsciously judging it to only apply to things that they themselves believe in.. we need to be crystal clear what freedom and free speech were really talking about.

freedom itself is usually easier to define as there are some fundamental principles: you should be allowed to do what you want as long as you are not harming others.

GrreatTeacher

Is it a free choice if there is coercion involved?

If your parents are threatening the roof over your head, I would say it is not a free choice.

If your wife is threatening divorce you and take the kids, leaving them ever more indoctrinated and farther away from your balanced view of things, I would say that is not a free choice.

Remember, this is a cult. While your argument on the whole sounds reasonable, it just doesn't apply equally to cults. This is not just an alternate philosophy or point of view. There are destructive psychological methods at work that preclude the making of an informed or truly free choice.

50

Freedom, Free speech, Censorship, Religion and Tight Pants

by Simon in

you would need to be living in a cave to not be aware of the turmoil happening in the world with groups like isis murdering cartoonists over their depiction of their prophet and sides being taken to either attack religion or to defend the right to practise it.. the battle lines appear to be drawn between those who believe in freedom and those who would see it curtailed to be replaced with their own version of what is and isnt acceptable.

most people want freedom and free speech but when choosing it are perhaps unconsciously judging it to only apply to things that they themselves believe in.. we need to be crystal clear what freedom and free speech were really talking about.

freedom itself is usually easier to define as there are some fundamental principles: you should be allowed to do what you want as long as you are not harming others.

GrreatTeacher

"Most people in a religion believe in that religion" - Simon

I think the JWs might be a group where that is not entirely true. It seems there are a good number of Jehovah's Witnesses who don't believe but are stuck in for family because of the disfellowshipping threat.

46

JW Table at My Student Center Today, My Response

by breakfast of champions in

they're baaaack!!!

jws "tabling" at my student center again, first time in over six months.

i wonder if the fact it's been 15 degrees out had anything to do with it?

GrreatTeacher

Please, the next time you see them on campus, go up and strike up a conversation and ask, "Are you alumni?"

When they say no, ask, "Oh, well where did you go to college, then?"

I'd love to hear their response.