herk

Joined

• started 4 topics
• posted 808 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by herk

• 
  740

  The Trinity

  by meadow77 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  top reasons the wts is lying about the trinity.

  their translation of john 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs.

  the insertion of the phrase a god, instead of god is just a clear misinterpretation.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  herk

  SwedishChef,

  You wrote,

  In Micah 5:2, I realized it's all a matter of interpretation.

  That simply is not true. The KJV tells of a "ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from ever lasting." The context determines whether owlam means "everlasting" or an indefinite time period in the past. In the context of this verse we have the phrase "goings forth." Other translations are helpful in determining what that phrase means. Note some examples:

  "whose ORIGIN is from of old, FROM ANCIENT DAYS." (Revised Standard Version)
  "his COMINGS FORTH [are] of old, from the DAYS OF ANTIQUITY." (Young's Translation)
  "his ORIGIN goes back to THE DISTANT PAST, to the DAYS OF OLD." (The Jerusalem Bible)
  "whose ORIGIN is from OF OLD, from ANCIENT TIMES." (New American Bible)
  "whose ROOTS are FAR BACK IN THE PAST, in DAYS GONE BY." (New English Bible)
  "whose ORIGIN is OF OLD, of LONG DESCENT." (Moffatt's Translation)

  These translations all recognize that this verse speaks of a point of origin for the Messiah, a fixed point in time, and not about the Messiah being eternal. It is talking about at what point in time the Messiah first "went forth" or originated.

  Herk
• 
  740

  The Trinity

  by meadow77 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  top reasons the wts is lying about the trinity.

  their translation of john 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs.

  the insertion of the phrase a god, instead of god is just a clear misinterpretation.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  herk
• 
  740

  The Trinity

  by meadow77 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  top reasons the wts is lying about the trinity.

  their translation of john 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs.

  the insertion of the phrase a god, instead of god is just a clear misinterpretation.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  herk

  SwedishChef,

  You asked,

  1) Who is the "most Holy"?
  2) Was there a certain time when Jesus was annointed?
  3) Who is the King of kings?

  Judging by previous dealings with you, I can't know whether you are sincere or trying to set me up for a trap. I can only know when you give your reason for asking.

  "Then the Pharisees went and plotted together how they might trap him in what he said. And they sent their disciples to him, along with the Herodians, saying, 'Teacher, we know that you are truthful and teach the way of God in truth, and defer to no one; for you are not partial to any. Tell us then, what do you think? Is it lawful to give a poll-tax to Caesar, or not?' But Jesus perceived their malice, and said, 'Why are you testing me, you hypocrites?'" (Matthew 22:15-18)

  "Then they sent some of the Pharisees and Herodians to him in order to trap him in a statement. They came and said to him, 'Teacher, we know that you are truthful and defer to no one; for you are not partial to any, but teach the way of God in truth. Is it lawful to pay a poll-tax to Caesar, or not? Shall we pay or shall we not pay?' But he, knowing their hypocrisy, said to them, 'Why are you testing me?'" (Mark 12:13-15)

  Herk
• 
  740

  The Trinity

  by meadow77 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  top reasons the wts is lying about the trinity.

  their translation of john 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs.

  the insertion of the phrase a god, instead of god is just a clear misinterpretation.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  herk

  Edited by - herk on 5 December 2002 14:47:33
• 
  740

  The Trinity

  by meadow77 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  top reasons the wts is lying about the trinity.

  their translation of john 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs.

  the insertion of the phrase a god, instead of god is just a clear misinterpretation.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  herk

  SwedishChef,

  Earlier you wrote to me regarding Micah 5:2:

  Can the Deity of Christ be any more obvious than this?

  It is stated that the Messiah has an EVERLASTING PAST. Who has an everlasting past but God? Don't ever say that I twist scripture when such clearity is used in these passages.

  The Messiah has an everlasting past. Why don't you stop avoiding Scripture and just accept it. Accept the fact that you can't understand the nature of God, and just trust what the Scriptures say.

  Now you say:

  Herk, you made some good points concerning Micah 5:2.

  Which is it? Which is the real YOU? Is this FINALLY an admission that the one avoiding Scripture is not me but you instead? An admission that YOU are the one who will not "just accept it" when it comes to Scripture testimony? That YOU are the one who "can't understand the nature of God" or even "just trust what the Scriptures say"? Is it an admission that you DO "twist scripture," after all?

  Herk

  Edited by - herk on 5 December 2002 14:17:53

  Edited by - herk on 5 December 2002 14:19:42
• 
  740

  The Trinity

  by meadow77 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  top reasons the wts is lying about the trinity.

  their translation of john 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs.

  the insertion of the phrase a god, instead of god is just a clear misinterpretation.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  herk
• 
  740

  The Trinity

  by meadow77 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  top reasons the wts is lying about the trinity.

  their translation of john 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs.

  the insertion of the phrase a god, instead of god is just a clear misinterpretation.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  herk

  Edited by - herk on 5 December 2002 11:23:49
• 
  740

  The Trinity

  by meadow77 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  top reasons the wts is lying about the trinity.

  their translation of john 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs.

  the insertion of the phrase a god, instead of god is just a clear misinterpretation.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  herk

  SwedishChef wrote:

  Micah 5:2 "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting" This passage says the Messiah has an everlasting past. No creator! Can the Deity of Christ be any more obvious than this?

  This is a prophecy about the Messiah. It is stated that the Messiah has an EVERLASTING PAST. Who has an everlasting past but God? Don't ever say that I twist scripture when such clearity is used in these passages.

  The Messiah is identifed has having an everlasting past.

  When I looked at your cross reference to Micah 7:2 I found nothing to compare.

  Herk, if you can refute Micha 5:2 then please do! I am very interested in your response.

  You still haven't refuted Micah 5:2. The Messiah has an everlasting past. Why don't you stop avoiding Scripture and just accept it. Accept the fact that you can't understand the nature of God, and just trust what the Scriptures say.

  Herk, thats all nice, but you never made a refutation to John 1:1 or Micha 5:2. Still waiting.

  Micha 5:2 says the Messiah's goings forth have been "from everlasting". He has an everlasting past.

  Herk has responded:

  You simply have to know that you are deliberately lying here. Compare Micah 5:2 with 7:20 where in each case the same Hebrew idiom is used.

  Garboru also wrote:

  Michah 5:2: "But you, Bethlehem in Ephrathah, small as you are to be among Judah's clans, out of you shall come forth a governor for Israel, one whose roots are far back in the past, in days gone by." - The New English Bible

  So Jesus has a geneology whose roots are far back in the past. Matthew and Luke show us this. How does this show that Jesus is God?

  "Everlasting origins" is a biased and misleading translation in Micah 5:2. The promise of the Messiah could be traced "to the distant past." The same Hebrew expression is found in Deuteronomy 32:7. The almost exact wording appears in Micah 7:14, Amos 9:11 and Isaiah 63:9, 11, where even the KJV consistently renders it as "the days of old," having nothing to do with eternity. The Hastings Bible Dictionary translates the expression in Micah 5:2 as "remote antiquity," adding that days of eternity wrongly suggests the eternal preexistence of the Messiah.

  Edited by - herk on 5 December 2002 11:50:23
• 
  740

  The Trinity

  by meadow77 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  top reasons the wts is lying about the trinity.

  their translation of john 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs.

  the insertion of the phrase a god, instead of god is just a clear misinterpretation.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  herk
• 
  740

  The Trinity

  by meadow77 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  top reasons the wts is lying about the trinity.

  their translation of john 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs.

  the insertion of the phrase a god, instead of god is just a clear misinterpretation.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  herk

  Edited by - herk on 5 December 2002 8:44:33