Posts by rocketman

77

What if JWs are right?!?

by brotherdan in

i know this is a pointless question, but what if this happened:.

you came home from work one day, sat down, and turned on the tv.

there is a sudden announcement that the un has banned all religion.

rocketman

I can't see it happening; in fact, I think the Watchtower Society will change that teaching the same way they've changed many others.

Before the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, I figured maybe it could happen - maybe the UN could knock off religion. After seeing what happened in those two wars - we can't even handle the Taliban without a lot of trouble, and they're still a threat and protracting the Afghan war, there's no way the UN, even with US backing, could somehow ensure that people would not attend religious services. There's not nearly enough reach or scope in the UN or US to do this.

Islam would probably be the biggest obstacle. It would become completely radicalized as its adherents fought such a ban. The UN and US are having enough trouble containing the small fraction of Islam that is currently radical. I can't imagine they'd want to take on the entire religion. They'd get a jihad like they've never seen.

I can also not imagine some evangelical US religions ever going along with such a ban.

194

Bethel Rules

by brotherdan in

this was brought up just in passing on another thread.

but i wanted to see if there are any bethelites or ex bethelites that remember some of the crazy rules we had to follow when we were there..

rocketman

Great thread. While I can see the need for some rules in any place in which a large number of people must function together, most of these rules appear needless and unreasonable - just like the rules of the Pharisees.

33

I can't believe how many people are leaving now...

by mac n cheese in

jw
friends

(sorry if this is a double post - i haven't been on in awhile).

so spouse and i are completely inactive.

it's great!

rocketman

I think your approach is very smart mac n cheese - listening and giving the pros and cons rather than coming across as a raving apostate. Many who leave simply want someone who understands what they're going through and someone with whom they can talk and relate.

11

When men were made Elders, did you notice their personality change?

by carvin in

jw
friends

i thought about this after reading flippers thread about how elders are appointed.

great thread by the way.. i can recall many times when guys were made elders, and sometimes even made ms that their personility would change almost over night.

i knew many nice, kind, elders and ms but many especially newly appionted ones would be, at times, just difficult to be around.

rocketman

Unfortunately, it's a situation where unqualified* men are given authority over a group of people. It's often a recipe for disaster, an open door to spiritual and emotional abuse.

On top of that, these men are not only given sheperding responsibilities but suddenly find themselves with congregation responsibilities - more talks to prepare, elders meetings to attend, etc.

They become squeezed by all the demands. On top of that, their own "righteousness" must be on display at all times. It can turn the most laid back of men into judgmental shrews. Being given authority often provides a doorway for negative, but previously dormant or subdued personality traits to surface.

*These men are supposed to be "qualified", but in many cases their qualifications have more to do with performance/attendance in field service and at meetings rather than true ability to lead and shepherd.

30

Did you ever have the Elders check out a prospective marriage mate 4U?

by Open mind in

or, to your knowledge, did anyone ever make any inquiries of your local elders as to your "spiritual health" and suitability for courtship?.

how'd that work out for you?.

om.

rocketman

," These CO's like Elders to do their dirty work. So if we alert the sister about this brother and she gets upset, who will she be upset with? Us, and guess where the CO will be? At his new assignment never to be seen again. If he wants this sister warned about this brother, he needs to do it himself."

Wow, an elder (and body of elders) who actually stood up to a CO, and a very interesting comment on his part.

31

What was it that first got you thinking that the Society was WRONG in how they INTERPRET the BIBLE?

by UnDisfellowshipped in

what was it that first got you thinking that the society was wrong in how they interpret the bible?.

for me personally, it was the way they always downgrade jesus to be an angel and are promoting the governing body in his place.. also when the society taught that jesus was abaddon/apollyon the fallen angel in revelation..

rocketman

The comments thus far have touched on several issues that I had - the strange interpretations of Revelation, the failed dates stemming all the way back to the late 1800s. I'll add that the interpretations of some of Jesus' parables didn't make sense. They recently changed some of their 'understanding' in regard to Matthew 13, but their conclusions still are all WTS-oriented, as is the case with just about all their prophetic applications.

30

Did you ever have the Elders check out a prospective marriage mate 4U?

by Open mind in

or, to your knowledge, did anyone ever make any inquiries of your local elders as to your "spiritual health" and suitability for courtship?.

how'd that work out for you?.

om.

rocketman

Open Mind comes to an interesting conclusion - it could work, if the elders actually give the right input. They may be privy to something disturbing about a prospective date/mate that few others might know.

But there are obvious problems with relying on elders, as some responses have already shown. One thing I'll add is that, unless there is something disturbing in the file, the elders often do not know much about a person in regard to what makes him/her a good marriage prospect. For instance, elders may know a brother, but how often do we see instances where brothers put on their best appearance just to impress the elders? Elders often know brothers only in respect to what they see of them at the meetings. Or, they draw conclusions on fitness of character only from jw-related criteria such as hours on a service report or whether a brother shows up to carry a microphone at the meetings. These things do not correlate into what kind of marriage partner a person will be, but it's often the basis for whatever judgments the elders make.

24

John of Patmos NOT John of the Gospels

by PSacramento in

as we know, john and his brother james, along with peter, were the closest to jesus.. john, along with james and peter were the sole witnesses to jesus's transfiguration on the mountain.. it may have been this john that dictated the gospel of john and some scholars believe that there was john the apostle, john the elder and john of patmos, that all were different john's.. well, lets not go there right now, but in regards to john of patmos being john the apostle:.

john the aspostle saw jesus's transfiguration:.

the transfiguration.

rocketman

If these people would have had first, middle, and last names, we might not have this confusion. And we should assign them Social Security numbers and photo IDs while we're at it.

91

Do you REALLY believe Ezekiel laid seige to a brick 390 days?

by Terry in

in ezekiel the 4th chapter one of the most ludicrous passages in the bible tells us god commanded his prophet ezekiel to lie on his left side in a mock seige against a.....brick!

for how long?

390 days!.

rocketman

If this account is to be believed at all, it can't be taken literally. As Mad Sweeney pointed out, it would seem that Ezekiel would have to be free to move around at some times during each day. As other comments mentioned, acts such as using the potty would become problematic.

The 'ropes' verse is troubling. It does seem to imply that the prophet would indeed be confined to this position. Maybe it should be taken literally after all - which makes it one very goofy account.

21

Creating exactly what He got: SINNERS...(Jehovah the architect of disaster)

by Terry in

god may as well forgive short people for a lack of height as to forgive them for their sin!.

god's "superior" standards are merely the difference between his nature and how he made humans!.

deliberately creating inferior creatures and then burdening them with infinitely superior standards of thought and conduct.

rocketman

The post-Flood scenario was largely the same, with one glaring exception: the earth was now to be populated by imperfect humans. I'm not sure what God's thought process was. He knew things would decay again.

So in essence, it may be that God made the same 'mistake' not once, but twice, if the Bible is to be believed.

Actually, one reason I have trouble accepting the Genesis account of creation and the fall, and then the Flood, is because it seems to defy logic. It's also too simple, too convenient. It seems awfully convenient that the first man and woman sinned. By convenient, I mean from the story-telling standpoint. In other words, it would seem more realistic if Adam and Eve would have first had a few children, and one of them would then sin.

But here we have the first couple, supposedly perfect and full of procreative power. And yet strangely, she does not get pregnant until after they sin. Just seems too convenient.