just reading a thread and the mention of karma popped up.
( it happens, lol).
a lot of people believe in karma: what goes around comes around.. some months ago, while on another exjw site, karma was mentioned and i thought it a little odd, as they are atheist.
As an agnostic, I don't believe in Karma. That's not to say that there isn't some 'payback', some 'what-goes-around' and 'repaing what you sow'. But I think that while examples of it are related by people, there are many instances where it never happens.
We hear stories of it happening, of someone getting their just due, and yes, we think it's true. But I think it's random. It happens to some, but not to others. We just happen to hear about the cases in which it did happen.
one of the worst and best things about waking up is realizing that despite what you've been taught as a child, you are going to die one day.
that was easy for me to handle, as i've had near death medical emerigencies.
the hardest part is the thought of losing your parents.
I was at a Lutheran funeral some years ago, and the words of Paul made much more sense and impact when considered from that persepective.
i think by most accounts, my previous posts have testified to my moving towards an agnostic stance.
i just don't know and i can't believe for belief's sake.
i came across a quote i thought quite timely in my journey.. .
Atheists and Christians will disagree, but no one knows for sure. In effect, we're all Agnostics.
just got back from a recent sad.. after most talks, the applause was, at most, tepid.. it was striking in its tepidity, if that is possible (and if that is a word).. affter most talks, applause lasted literally no more than 5 seconds.
its volume was scarcely above a whisper.. it wasn't acoustics - the bethel speaker was technically a polished speaker (although presenting the same old boring info), and his talks generated noticeably louder applause.
but even still - that applause was maybe 10 seconds, and about normal-conversation level.. but local speakers - the applause was not much more loud than the hum coming from your refrigerator.. there were 1300+ people there.. it was just so weird - my previous large-group experience was at the agm, where people were nearly apoplectic & drooling with delight over their new "silver bibles" (which very few have read, i'd wager).. these guys were just "zombified".. speaking of bibles - bethel dude called it a "platinum bible".
I've been at assemblies at which one person was baptized. So let's do the math:
You said 1300 were there. Now let's allow for an average hours/month per publisher of 5, despite the fact that they encourage 10 hours per month. We'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say 5.
1300 x 5 = 6,500
Now, since there are two assemblies per year (plus the convention) and it takes around six months to study with someone to the point where they become a Witness (assuming this person was found door-to-door and was not born-in), we mulitply the 6,500 by 6:
6,500 x 6 =39,000
So that's 39,000 hours of Field Service to produce one JW. Not very efficient.
If the person was born-in and just took forever to get baptized, then those 39,000 hour produced 0 JWs.
"Never did they say 'These are the words of Jehovah'"...but in the masthead of those Awake! magazines: "the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away".
So they call it the Creator's promise, which is just like saying "these are the words of Jehovah". So yes, it's a false prophecy.
if one reads genesis from the first chapter through the end with an open mind, it is clear that not only is it not true, but that god is potrayed as a cruel, petty, childish micromanaging tyrant.
if one continues reading the ot this is just further solidified.
how do jws not see the obvious?
Cofty, I'm not a theist or an apologist. Just my .02 on what I get from the Bible. What I'm merely saying is that those who look for some explanation from the Bible probably won't find one. I'm not saying that's right, or wrong. But it is, to myself and likely countless others, frustrating. When I read Job, for example, I look for some explanation, and I wonder how Job felt by not getting one.
I take no stand for or against - I know better than to do that around here. I don't care to debate. Offer an opinion here and the sharks circle, waiting to devour.
if one reads genesis from the first chapter through the end with an open mind, it is clear that not only is it not true, but that god is potrayed as a cruel, petty, childish micromanaging tyrant.
if one continues reading the ot this is just further solidified.
how do jws not see the obvious?
There's a basic pattern to most of God's judgments in the OT - warning, time allowed for repentance, then all hell breaks loose. In some cases, the time allowed was hundreds of years, such as for the Israelites and even the Amorites, whose error was allowed to 'come to completion'.
There are some cases that seem to be exceptions, such as the stoning of Achan and the guy who picked up stuff on the Sabbath. Then there was the poor guy who tried to steady the Ark of The Covenant. In these instances, judgment was swift. There were warnings given, though not directly to the individuals involved. All should have known better, but none received a reprieve.
Interestingly in Job, he took it on the chin quite hard and never received an explanation as to why. God simply questioned him with 'where were you when I...?' and then restored him. But nothing was ever really explained.
Perhaps God feels that he owes no explanation. If he didn't explain it to a man who lost everything, he's not obliged, apparently, to explain it to us.
what did jesus say?.
(acts 1:8)8 but you will receive power when the holy spirit arrives upon you, and you will be witnesses of me both in jerusalem and in all judea and samaria and to the most distant part of the earth.
by "divine providence" what did jesus' followers become known as?.
If a JW were to go to doors in field service and say 'we're witnesses of Jesus' he/she would likely draw a reprimand from the elders.
if one reads genesis from the first chapter through the end with an open mind, it is clear that not only is it not true, but that god is potrayed as a cruel, petty, childish micromanaging tyrant.
if one continues reading the ot this is just further solidified.
how do jws not see the obvious?
Really good thread.
Of course, it's not just Jehovah's Witnesses, but Christians and Jews claim to love the God of the Hebrew Scriptures too.
some of you are aware of where i'm at with this whole thing.
i still occasionally go to meetings for family reasons but my attendance has been lack luster at best.
i'd say i go about once a month if that.. i empathize with those who are wary of taking the ultimate stand for fear of losing their family.
When I was an elder, I'd sometimes stand at the back of the auditorium during the meetings, and just look at those in attendance sitting in their seats. I'd say to myself 'if not for them (their willingness to obey jw doctrine), I'd have no authority'.
This is how it likely is with the GB. Take away the rank-and-file, and their authority is gone.
