Posts by BackseatDevil

43

Coping with becoming an atheist?

by Crazyguy in

jw
friends

its been a very eye opening experience for me to find out that the god of the bible is as real as thor or ra.

i still believe a higher power created life but can see now how it doesn't really care about us.

so with this in mind realizing one has only 70-80 years to live and that may be just it, is very stunning..

BackseatDevil

So by your logic shouldn't that put MORE value on time being alive? We will all be dead forever, but being alive is just a blip. Shouldn't we spend more time loving it than worrying about whether or not the mythos of a people who thought the world was flat is "truth" or not?

"The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man who lives fully is prepared to die at any time." - Mark Twain

So yes... I mourn the loss time. And the time loss explaining such to people who do not hold the beauty of time as valuable as I.

43

Coping with becoming an atheist?

by Crazyguy in

jw
friends

its been a very eye opening experience for me to find out that the god of the bible is as real as thor or ra.

i still believe a higher power created life but can see now how it doesn't really care about us.

so with this in mind realizing one has only 70-80 years to live and that may be just it, is very stunning..

BackseatDevil

God has been silent for a few millenia now, and listening to people gripe and argue about WHY GOD this and WHY GOD that and WHY GOD hasn't done this or that is very much like watching a drunk person argue with a mannequin – where the drunk person thinks the mannequin is just an arrogant son-of-a-bitch who won't say anything, but that doesn't prevent the drunk guy from having a FULL conversation with him from heated argument to loving agreement.

That's all this is. We live on this planet for 80+ years (and that number is growing) and our DNA changes so rapidly in just just a few generations, but no matter what, mankind still wants to get angry with, blame, be at peace with, and give thanks to a mannequin. It's the most important thing in the world to them sometimes. Anyone who has had an arguement with a drunk can understand this.

And when we sober up... we will do everything in our power not to admit that we had such a strong emotional interaction with something that didn't exist. Maybe that's where you are now, maybe that is yet to come. I don't know.

The more science answers the big questions of life, the less space there is to fill in with the answer of “god.” This means that over time, god becomes smaller and smaller, occupying less and less space. He was once driving a chariot across the sky and leveled entire nations at the will of his people... and now he is only responsible for the Big Bang and a few pleasant coincidences found in a follower's life. The reality of god shrinks to almost nothing as we sober up.

For me, there was a 50% mark. In my mind, roughly 50% of the answers could be answered by science and 50% could be answered by “god.” This was in high school. Past the 50% mark, it became a higher probability that god didn't do it, and the unknowns are just sciences that are yet to be discovered. It made sense to me to spend more time learning, enjoying, exploring, and celebrating life than it was to focus on a god that had and continual increasing probability of not existing. There is so much of the world you could be absorbing rather than worrying about this... foods to taste, cultures to experience, drugs to try, and drinks to toast. There are so many people and philosophies and EDUCATION out there.

There was noting for me to cope with except the pain I felt over the lost time spent as I did not realize this sooner.

22

A comment to make witnesses ears prick up and think.

by stuckinarut2 in

so the next time you are in a group of witnesses and discussion about a sad event where people died occurs (such as a car accident, natural disaster etc), just casually say:.

" oh well, that's a few less people jehovah has to kill at armageddon.....so don't be upset!...at least they now get a resurrection".

that will make witnesses think!.

BackseatDevil

I think if I ever find myself in a group of Witnesse, they might be more concerned with me stabbing them in the eye, but between slashes, YES, I'll be sure to bring this up because although it's a bit cynical, it is fairly accurate.

I remember my mother saying how she thought gay men who are moved to suicide will at least get another chance when god resurrects them.

I thought, "Wow. How loving."

And presumptuous. Today gay men who kill themselves get resurrected, but who knows... tomorrow NEW LIGHT will state that they will not.

15

Reasons for staying In?

by objectivetruth in

jw
friends

i have spoken to %90 of mymfriends & family.. and i have found that there are 3 basic reasons why people stay.. .

1. god has always had an organization.

the organization has never been perfect, but he has always had one.. 2. i know a lot of things are wrong, bit where else can i go?

BackseatDevil

I know you're not giving actual reasons to stay in, but I might say that #1 doesn't really work because Jesus came to earth to preach against the organized religion at the time and started a disorganized movement. In fact, it wasn't even remotely organized until the Church of Paul was established. Plus, god is GOD. When it comes to humans, he doesn't HAVE to have anything. Religion is more for us than it is for him.

And with #2 it's not that whether something is wrong or right - it's that rules must be followed without question and individuals are not in charge of their own spiritual well-being. I think it's fairly obvious that if JWs teaching are very similar to other religions that are considered "false," then there is no real honor in faith-bashing other religions the way they do. There are many places to go for enlightenment that extend past that of Christianity. The fact that one would see life so limited in scope as to ask the absurd question of "Where else can I go?" is proof of current captivity when the entire globe is filled with content and happy non-Jehovah's Witnesses.

As for #3, I'm not sure what the organization protects one from. There is a social circle that develops with all clubs and organizations, and JWs are no different than the LDS in this regard... it's social protection, but that's no more beneficial than in high school when the cool kids know your name. Yes, it gives you a sense of social protection, but in times of tension, there is no netting.

Staying in for inhertance or money is a personal issue, but an interesting paradox. Is money so important that one would stay in a false organization that condemns the desire of money? And if you are one of faith, are you willing to sacrifice your eternal salvation for money... that is a pointless additive to eternal salvation? I would think a person who is truly a Christian would not give up their faith for money. If one couldn't pay a Witness to leave "the truth" I'm not sure why should be able to pay a Witness to stay in.

So from my view, the reasons for staying in would be lack of strength to leave, lack of education, social stability, or trying to "keep the peace" between family members (although if staying in is the only thing keeping the family at peace, it's prehaps best to just RUN AWAY and start a new family, lol).

22

Did the WT ever unofficially ban Kal-El?

by HowTheBibleWasCreated in

a few years ago avatar was 'demonized' by the wt.

in reality their argument had an extreme ignorance of hinduism and a poor knowledge of modern langauge (avatar means something else nowadays.... ).

but anyway when i was growing up my parents recorded the 4 supermen movies on to video tape as they were played on tv.

BackseatDevil

Decades ago, Joseph Campbell identified the Monomyth Cycle, also known as “The Hero's Journey” as a noted narrative in story telling. The majority of tales from Jesus Christ to James Bond uses this progression (in some variation) starting from an unlikely beginning, call to adventure, etc. etc. until they are dead (or we think they are dead), return, redemption, atonement, and finally freedom.

So when movies started to get more “symbolic” in their meaning (i.e. taking the monomyth and applying it to other aspects of fantasy) then yes... to any Christian fundamentalist the story of E.T. The Extraterrestrial seemed uncomfortable in its familiarity and the Star War's use of THE FORCE put literalism to the concept of the holy spirit. So the WTBTS mentioned these movies in Watchtower articles as there was such a ruckus about them. JWs are in no way unique in this as many Christian fundamentalists thought this way. I cannot stress how typical the WTBTS is at times.

But here is the flaw in this: EVERY story using the monomyth could be a metaphor for Jesus... mainly because the story of Jesus isn't that original in concept. Just in 1982 we had Annie, Blade Runner, An Officer and a Gentlemen, Tron, and Ghandhi that all had this theme.

So the WTBTS crated a bit of a problem for themselves: By mentioning specific movies, the purposefully inept and gullible masses were conflicted. E.T. and Star Wars are not allowed, but what about Superman – and OBVIOUS “Jesus” symbol, but honestly just a cartoon character that has been family-oriented since 1938. He has the philosophy of Jesus, the grace of Jesus, the mercy of Jesus, superhuman powers like Jesus, BUT no one thinks of him as Jesus even though there is such a warm Jesusy feel to the story. So it was confusing because everything from Ben-Hur to Tootsie follows a similar narrative pattern. WHAT ARE THEY TO DO?? And so people argued amongst themselves about what was appropriate and what was not. The Dark Crystal was not okay because it was sorcery, but the Secret of NIMH was okay because it was cartoon... and if that was fantasy that used A FORCE and okay why wasn't Star Wars which is obviously fantasy not okay? Etc. etc.

From then the WTBTS broke from their Adventist roots and Baptist brethren and stopped naming specific movies and characters to give only sweeping generalities toward the dangers from the entertainment industry by writing that viewing is left up to the publisher's discretion. Of course, this still meant that the elders could to judge someone if the publisher didn't make the “right” decision, but at least this way the WTBTS wouldn't get blamed.

8

The zoolander experiment.

by sparrowdown in

jw
friends

do you think romantic relationships work better in the long run if both partners are roughly intellectual equals?.

.

BackseatDevil

I'm finding it hard to understand why this question would even be asked. Of course the answer is "yes, but..." as the ideal situation is yes, however there are (as mentioned) way too many other factors at play including chemistry (actual chemistry, not just a generic concept of such) that cause a definitive answer to slide from an over-simplified, rigid generalization.

110

What song or line from a song bests describes your time as a JW?????

by karter in

waisted days and waisted nites.. freddy fender..

BackseatDevil

Marilyn Manson's "Beautiful People."

84

One thing about this site that bothers me

by keyser soze in

jw
friends

the constant references to 'window washers' as something derogatory.. i understand the context of it-that most jws are uneducated, and unqualified to do much more.

but sometimes the references seem snobbish, almost mean-spirited.

one poster, on another thread, essentially referred to window washers as 'losers'.

BackseatDevil

@keyser soze

THEY are nothing more than window washers... just as a base minimum. This is a biased generalization and not entirely incorrect.

But as a whole, window washers (generally speaking) in the world are NOT nothing more than window washers. Window washers can be other things as well (family man, artist, writer, toy train collector, etc.). Jehovah's Witness window washers are pretty much JUST Jehovah's Witnesses... and JUST window washers. There's not a lot of depth here, LOL.

There's a different between people who take pride in what they do and therefore do it well (your father and my grandfather was a plumber), and there are people who do it because it means they don't have to think about or interact with the “world.” It is used as a method of muting those who may be good at other things like math, science, engineering, architecture, or the arts.

I agree with your sentiment (I know it doesn't sound like it, sorry). I just don't think there should be TOO much of an offense when discussing people who pigeon-hole themselves into a category on purpose. Just because one makes fun of Witnesses who happen to be part of “Category A” doesn't mean that EVERYONE in “Category A” should be subjected to such arrogance. And in this I find your emotion about the subject justified. We should be more sensitive about expansive categorization that over-simplifies a group of people in sweeping stereotypes just because a minor section of “Category A” happens to be a bunch of crazy cult members with spiritual paranoia and an Armageddon hard on.

84

One thing about this site that bothers me

by keyser soze in

jw
friends

the constant references to 'window washers' as something derogatory.. i understand the context of it-that most jws are uneducated, and unqualified to do much more.

but sometimes the references seem snobbish, almost mean-spirited.

one poster, on another thread, essentially referred to window washers as 'losers'.

BackseatDevil

The people you should be upset with are Jehovah's Witnesses, not anyone here on this board.

In perspective, window washers themselves are not bad people... no more than any other manual labor job. However, if there exists a group of people who take advantage of such easily taught employment and promotes that over going to college and gaining an education, THEN window washing isn't just 'a job' anymore – it's an excuse and the default in life. It becomes a menial job that doesn't require much training, skill, or mental stamina so that workers can then focus on the church, the preaching work, and the organization as a whole.

So the people who are demeaning this is not those of us with observation skills, it's those that are treating it as a “means to an end” rather than an honest job (as your father would have looked at it) and an avoidance of a better default that SHOULD be secondary education in a field that suits the mentality and the DNA of each person. Individual aptitude and ability is suppressed for the assumption that just because “anyone” can do a job, that everyone should do that job, and that in the long-run happiness is not derived from what we do, but rather how we worship.

Some people get satisfaction from cleaning. These people should be window washers. Some people do not... in JW terms, these people should STILL be window washers.

156

When we die...

by Finallyfree12 in

jw
friends

do you beleive our spirit lives on in other dimensions or are we really just dead?

?.

BackseatDevil

Who cares?

The more you focus on an unknown like the after life, the less time you have to focus on the current life. If you are a good person, be good. If you are not, then don't.

No matter what we want and no matter what we believe, there is a high probablility that we will be wrong. So who cares as long as we do well in this life.

(UNLESS you are insecure about your not being a good person... THEN I suppse that would give one cause to worry about the afterlife, I suppose.)