Posts by joe134cd

48

JWs are bigger and more successful than the Mormon church

by joe134cd in

just saw the following you tube video.

it’s 3 hours long, but thoroughly interesting.

if you want to save yourself 3 hours, basically the active mormon church is about 3 million.

joe134cd

If the SDA do have a bigger membership, the difference would only be by a couple of million at the most. As Slim commented the more accurate size of the JWs would lie between the publisher amount and those attending the memorial. I think the truer JW membership would be around the 16 million mark. If you were to factor in the attendance of those who truly believe the writings of Ellen G White you could also come to the same figure for the SDA. Let’s just take a rough estimate and say they are the same.

The point that really comes home to me with the JW / LDS comparison, is that having more money doesn’t necessarily mean more members. Think on this for a moment. Mormonism had a 50 year head start on JWisim. By the time of the first printing of Zions Watchtower, Utah had been granted statehood by the US government. So Wt in the course of 200 years since the inception of Mormonism, not only closed a 50 year gap, but was able to increase its activity rate by 200%. They also done it on a fraction of the money that both the LDS and SDA has. In the last 20-25 years Wt is certainly in decline, but over the course of its history, with all its scandals and false doctrines, their performance would probably make Microsoft or apple computer green with envy.

I also think Mormon members are more prepared to put up with the nonsense of their leaders e.g fudging numbers, and hiding facts. Could you imagine the outrage, if Wt opened a $5 billion dollar, church funded, shopping complex. While Tony Morris, cutting the ribbon on the opening day said “let’s go shopping.”

48

JWs are bigger and more successful than the Mormon church

by joe134cd in

just saw the following you tube video.

it’s 3 hours long, but thoroughly interesting.

if you want to save yourself 3 hours, basically the active mormon church is about 3 million.

joe134cd

I would like to correct an error I made. The activity rates for the LDS could lie any where between 3-4 million members. I've broken the video into time slots to give a more definitive and direct answer. The video is fascinating, and may force us to rethink our position on JW statistics. I would hope that MR JWFACTS will read this as well. The real discussion on statistics is from the 21min - 1:45 mark

But since everywhere isn't Scotland, your “extensive local research” is indicative of nothing more than just that, “local research”.

21-31min A similar observation is made, to Slim, with regard to church attendance. The exception is that he was a Mormon Bishop covering two Australian states.

i have argued many times that number of congregations is the best statistic for comparison for number reasons.

50min - 1hour They support slims argument on counting congregations.

1:33 - 1:44 Activity rates in the UK at around 14.7% of the 188,000 members claimed by the LDS. Interestingly he makes the statement that there could be 30,000 active members in Australia. Considering that the Australian JW figure is 67,000, could reflect JW membership is considerably higher at an international level.

1:03 - 1:07 If it wasn't for Africa the LDS would of been in decline 4-5 years ago. In recent times the LDS has only just managed to grow by 1%. I think the JWs have grown by just over 1%. Lets just say their growth is comparable.

1:30 - 1:32 Units opening and closing around the world. Europe in decline. Growth in Africa. Mixed bag in north America perhaps indicating inaccurate counting by the church. South America not looking good. Asia in decline.

00:42 - 00:47 Phantom LDS members in Polynesia. Tonga could end up having more LDS than what live on the island due to inaccurate counting methods.

00:36 - 00:39 unnecessary buildings been built that cant be supported by the local members.

1:45 - 1:50 Its wealth. It has annual income of $US400 billion that it generates off its assets. WT is nothing compared to wealth of the LDS.

48

JWs are bigger and more successful than the Mormon church

by joe134cd in

just saw the following you tube video.

it’s 3 hours long, but thoroughly interesting.

if you want to save yourself 3 hours, basically the active mormon church is about 3 million.

joe134cd

Slim- Are you implying that

(1)Wt is been totally honest and transparent with its counting methods. The definition of membership, and been counted, differs between the two faiths.

(2) Wt is been dishonest, with its counting, in that it down plays its membership rather than pumping the numbers up, when compared to the LDS.

48

JWs are bigger and more successful than the Mormon church

by joe134cd in

just saw the following you tube video.

it’s 3 hours long, but thoroughly interesting.

if you want to save yourself 3 hours, basically the active mormon church is about 3 million.

joe134cd

I would agree with that. I do believe the SDA could be bigger than the 2 combined.

48

JWs are bigger and more successful than the Mormon church

by joe134cd in

just saw the following you tube video.

it’s 3 hours long, but thoroughly interesting.

if you want to save yourself 3 hours, basically the active mormon church is about 3 million.

joe134cd

Just saw the following you tube video. It’s 3 hours long, but thoroughly interesting. If you want to save yourself 3 hours, basically the active mormon church is about 3 million. This figure is been rather optimistic and it could possibly be a lot lower than that. For example a document was released in the UK, with regard to church attendance. It was about 18% of what the church was claiming. This decline has increased since the year 2000. Mormon figures are seriously doctored, and aren’t a reflection of what’s going on. If you were to factor in the amount of temple recommend holders, who’s are true believing members, the figure could be as low as 1.5 million members.

This confirms that the JWs could have a bigger membership that is more engaged. I think this speaks volumes for the JW methods involved to recruit its members. Sure, the JWs may be be losing 2/3 of its youth, but they are certainly blowing the lds out of the water with regard to size and retention. Bear in mind the Mormon church also is having the same problems e.g internet etc.

https://youtu.be/422btQC4VEE

19

How on earth can WT lawyers continue to believe WT has God’s backing, when they see all the deception play out in Court.

by pistolpete in

here is a post on reddit from mark and kimmy o’ donnell, from the crusaders documentary,.

ask us anything.. mr. o'donnell gives his assessment of why wt lawyers continue to defend the child sex abuse cases that the organization continues to fight, even though they see firsthand the deception, the lies, the withholding of facts and dirty tactics used in court.

by an organization that claims to be god's earthly representative, and the only one to hold the truth.

joe134cd

As a side point. I was thinking about that none JW lawyer in Canada who famously said, to the effect that, normal family relations continue in the case of a disfellowshiped individual.” Did anybody physically contact this guy, or know somebody who did, who took him to task on this. I’m guessing his phone would of been ringing off the hook

19

How on earth can WT lawyers continue to believe WT has God’s backing, when they see all the deception play out in Court.

by pistolpete in

here is a post on reddit from mark and kimmy o’ donnell, from the crusaders documentary,.

ask us anything.. mr. o'donnell gives his assessment of why wt lawyers continue to defend the child sex abuse cases that the organization continues to fight, even though they see firsthand the deception, the lies, the withholding of facts and dirty tactics used in court.

by an organization that claims to be god's earthly representative, and the only one to hold the truth.

joe134cd

I have a PIMI friend who has worked remotely with WT on some very senior projects around the world. This friend is a certified accountant. I often wonder how my friend makes sense of it all, as he would have to have some idea of the financial situation. Seems happy enough pioneering along.

51

PIMO elder

by Reservations in

jw
friends

i’m reservations, pimo elder.

i’m in no position to leave the organisation, maybe some people will see that as weak or whatever, but we have to all go down our own path in life.. i would like to be able to wake people up in my congregation, how do you think best to do this?

any ideas?.

joe134cd

I have found, when dealing with JWs, the less said the better off you will be. Good luck

24

Why wasn’t O’Donnell charged with receiving stolen goods.

by joe134cd in

firstly i appreciate the work mark o’donnell does for the xjw community.

no doubt this has also been discussed numerous times before.

but with regard to those documents that were illegally stolen in that vice documentary.

joe134cd

Can someone translate the above post please.

DIOGENESISTER- I think you hit the nail on the head with that scenario. I think that was exactly the case for the resulting outcome .

24

Why wasn’t O’Donnell charged with receiving stolen goods.

by joe134cd in

firstly i appreciate the work mark o’donnell does for the xjw community.

no doubt this has also been discussed numerous times before.

but with regard to those documents that were illegally stolen in that vice documentary.

joe134cd

I didn't get the impression the person in question burglarized the Kingdom Hall. It sounds more like this person just walked in and took the documents. It doesn't sound like the local elders found the front door of the Kingdom Hall busted open and the file cabinet pried open as well. It sounds more like an elder was just going through files and noticed them missing.

This adds clarity to the situation. As the person was a member of the corporation, with voting rights (e.g an elder with a key to the cabinet) this explains why watchtower couldn’t legally go after him, but subsequently removed him from the corporation for bringing that corporation into disrepute.

If this scenario is correct, it sounds as though the theft was more a protest, in that he deliberately wanted to be found out. Why steal the physical files. It would of been more concealing to have photographed the documents and returned them to the cabinet. Then when they turned up on the internet, just deny it. He would of been a fool to have thought that the other elders wouldn’t of noticed such important files missing.

If the objective was to be caught red handled, then why appeal his removal from the corporation (e.g disfellowshipping). Unless the purpose was just to stoke the hornets nest even more.