@ unstoppableravens
Do you also hear some kind of 'voice' from christ like Tammy?
Posts by zound
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157Atheists know more about the bible!
by Comatose ina newly minted atheist, she uses her youversion bible app to try to persuade people away from the christianity she grew up in.. .
i know of a lot of atheists who have come to their nonbelief by actually reading the bible rather than just the fluffy stories they choose to tell you about in church, she said.
reading the full story with all its contradictions and violence and sexism, it should make you think, is this really what i believe in?
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157
Atheists know more about the bible!
by Comatose ina newly minted atheist, she uses her youversion bible app to try to persuade people away from the christianity she grew up in.. .
i know of a lot of atheists who have come to their nonbelief by actually reading the bible rather than just the fluffy stories they choose to tell you about in church, she said.
reading the full story with all its contradictions and violence and sexism, it should make you think, is this really what i believe in?
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zound
The difference is - atheists don't have an interpretation of the bible and don't have to justify or do ridiculous leaps of logic to make verses fit a particular worldview (other than reality).
Therefore most atheists read the bible and see what it says plain as day - whilst many believers 'forget about' certain verses that don't gel with their beliefs, or add extremely dubious suppositions and assumptions to make the bible 'cohesive'.
Just as apostates are generally x100 more well versed in watchtower publications - I can see why it 'could' be true that many atheists are more well versed in bible - they have nothing to worry about if they stumble upon a not very loving act of god therein (of which there are many).
If believers want to remain believers or remain believers with little cognitive dissonenece then they better not read that thing - just cherry pick a bunch of scriptures now and again.
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71
Trying to overcome my homophobia.
by Julia Orwell ini had a music album by a gay guy before i was a jw and had no problem listening to it.
it's good music.
some of the lyrics are what you might call 'gay', that is there's some talk about boyfriends, gay bars, and queens and the intolerance the artist encountered as a gay man.
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zound
One of my best friends is gay.
Get to know some nice gay people and before long the fact they're gay will be a non issue - seeing same sex couples holding hands in the street actually does catch my attention these days, but only because I'm happy to see them not being afraid to be who they are.
Gay people have actually alot in common with people like us - shunning, judging, propoganda about them etc.
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2013 JW-Wimp Mobile!
by Atlantis inthe jw-wimp-mobile!
this is how they are doing it in mexico..........atlantis
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141
Knowledge by Proxy
by braincleaned inwhatever our convictions are, we all have one thing in common; we have learned them from other sources.. we have knowledge by proxy... we didn't find things out all by ourselves.
we let trusted sources talk for us.. belief is not something that you choose.
but if there is no elephant, i do not "choose" to believe it isn't there either.
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zound
Just cut and pasting a comment I made on another thread below, I have a big problem with people who encourage faith.
@ Tammy/Tec - If you have faith in something that is yet to happen and then evidence (real, hard, tangible evidence) presents itself that either completely debunks the reality of what you have faith in, or throws a very strong shadow of doubt on it - what do you do?
Soapbox moment:
Personally I think anyone promoting faith is a negative force in the world (sorry Tec - nothing personal)
If someone (especially children) are taught that believing something without evidence is a GOOD thing - a noble thing even - a thing to strive for, then they are being set up to fall.
When some destructive group knock on their door (the JW's for example) and say "here, believe this - don't ask questions, just have faith" - the person has already been taught that faith is a GOOD thing and are more at risk of joining such a group - or wasting their time believing in something that just isn't true.
Therefore I have a problem with anyone who is preaching from a POSITION OF FAITH. If you belieive something without evidence, no problem. As soon as you start promoting your mindset as a good thing to others - PROBLEM.
Most people of faith don't see the harm they are doing - BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEY ARE RIGHT - therefore the ends justifies the means. The other people that AREN'T RIGHT are the ones doing harm. Have faith now, they say, the evidence will be apparent in the next life (or when Jesus comes or whatever).
People who speak from a position of faith but claim to have evidence is another matter (hint: annecdotes aren't evidence)
It's up to people of reason to counter this harm that is being done and help children and ignorant people to use reason and evidence when making decisions, and not the falsity riddled dialogue such Tec uses (again, nothing personal Tammy - just expressing myself).
No matter how elquent or charming a person of faith can be - if they are promoting the fact that having faith is a great thing (doesn't even have to be preaching - just condoning) then they are promoting a very harmful thought process that can completely screw up a persons life.
Obviously myself after having gone through the mill am now in a position that I can rationally see this and have a discussion with a person of faith with no risk of believing their bull****. But it irks me to no end when I see these same perfectly nice people turn around and promote "Faith" as a good thing to their children, who are not equipped through experience like I am to see it for what it is.
End soapbox moment.
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JW's supposedly at Mall shooting
by zound inthe following is from annointedjw - a website i dislike the more i read from them.
this reeks of total bs to me, but interested if anyone else has heard about this.. the part that gets me, is how the hell they could know what these jw's did or said if they were killed - who witnessed this?
and the other thing that makes me rage is that these guys are martyring these jw's to further their own 'ministry' - very watchtower-like.. opinions?.
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zound
This is on the JW.org 'newsroom'. I'm not sure of the validity of the initial report and if those claimed to be killed were baptised or ex jws. But the org certainly haven't mentioned them - if they WERE jws but not in good standing because of these other "Christ sonship" ideas thats pretty harsh not to be acknowledged by the org isn't it.
Mall Shooting in Kenya
OCTOBER 14, 2013 | KENYA
On Saturday, September 21, 2013, gunmen raided a mall in Nairobi, Kenya, killing at least 67 people and injuring at least 175. The branch office of Jehovah’s Witnesses reports that a number of Jehovah’s Witnesses were in the mall at the time of the attack, but they were able to escape without injury. Josphat Makori, a spokesman for Jehovah’s Witnesses in Kenya, states: “This attack has saddened all in our community. We express our condolences to those mourning after this tragedy. We are working especially hard to provide spiritual comfort and practical assistance to our neighbors during this difficult time.”
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A Manual for Creating Atheists
by Hortensia injust received the book, sat down to start reading it.
first chapter has definitions:.
faith:.
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zound
It's the certainty of believers (most, perhaps not all) that winds me up. No room (or very little) for error. They don't think something, they KNOW something. If you asked me about evolution or something similar, I don't KNOW it is absolutely true, just as I don't absolutely KNOW that there is no God. I like to think I will change my position if the evidence indicates I should. It is the TRUEST position I want to find myself in given my knowledge.
As to the title of the book - I don't particulary like it, I think the title may be more for shock value. It's really just critical and rational thinking - which generally will lead to atheism.
I'm just trying to understand you tammy. Good night. Thanks for your input and answering Q's etc.
Regards
Zound -
52
A Manual for Creating Atheists
by Hortensia injust received the book, sat down to start reading it.
first chapter has definitions:.
faith:.
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zound
Some hear... such as his sheep... and some do not (for various reasons; some because they are not His sheep; some becaues they are currently listening to others; some because their leaders and/or forefathers have taught them something else, and that voice interferes with His)
So jesus voice isn't strong enough to overcome the voices of those who "interfere" with his?
Those who are NOT his sheep - that sounds like predestination - would that be accurate?
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52
A Manual for Creating Atheists
by Hortensia injust received the book, sat down to start reading it.
first chapter has definitions:.
faith:.
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zound
(atheists also feel strongly that there is no God, despite the protests that comment is sure to receive)
Atheist's don't "feel" there is no God. I don't feel like expounding on this right now, considering I think you full well know what my response would be.
(apologies - I'm in a bad mood today)
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52
A Manual for Creating Atheists
by Hortensia injust received the book, sat down to start reading it.
first chapter has definitions:.
faith:.
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zound
What evidence are you basing your faith on? Christ, who is the Spirit.
Okay so you don't have evidence - unless you dramatically redefine the the word 'evidence' just as you did with 'faith'.
You are speaking from a position of faith - Refer to my soapbox post above.
I can witness to the truth from what Christ has shown/taught me. But what others do with that is up to them.
This is kind of what I was talking about. "I can encourage people to have faith and just believe - I can show that it works wonders for me - but what others do with that is up to them."
So condone faith and even encourage it to others, and then in their susceptable mind frame if they then believe JW's, Scientologists, Mormons, Jim Jones, Catholics etc etc "What others do with that is up to them."
Nice.