Hi Comatose, I didn’t reject the bible when I accepted Neanderthals and the other primitive forefathers. What I did was look closer as to whether Genesis for one, was written to be taken literally or not. I decided after looking very carefully that it is written parabolically. That’s not to say I take the bible as inspired in terms of every word virtually hand written by God, not at all; just inspired of God in the conventional meaning of the word inspired.
Seraphim23
JoinedPosts by Seraphim23
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136
After the cult how many reject faith in anything?
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136
After the cult how many reject faith in anything?
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Seraphim23
This is really fascinating, not least because people’s experiences are being expressed and they come over as very human, touching and defining, but also on account of the pattern that is emerging. It seems that many of the atheists are so due to two main reasons more or less. One seems to be lack of supernatural or revelatory experiences of any kind, and the other seems to be the problem of evil in the natural world, along with the God in the Old Testament coming over as evil or not loving. Perhaps a third reason is that science appears to offer an alternative explanation for everything. Each reason is a deep discussion in its own right.
For those with belief in God or spirituality (not religion) the reasons are interestingly the reverse in some ways. One is the having of supernatural or revelatory experiences. The other is coming to terms in some ways with `the problem of evil` including or not the old testament God. No one seems to have alluded to this reason much, in that for me at least, science doesn’t offer an alternative explanation for everything and yes another topic for deep topic discussion. It is very much like mirror images these two sides. I hope that understanding the other side might hinder the intolerance of the other that seems to happen, although I am new here and don’t know the background to well of that on here, but I can imagine.
Lost I really appreciated your comment and the others as well. I might venture a few thoughts on the problem of evil when I get time, as it is the reason my dad identifies as an atheist, and particularly the evil old testament God category of that argument.
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After the cult how many reject faith in anything?
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Seraphim23
No wishful thinking my end Witness My Fury
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After the cult how many reject faith in anything?
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Seraphim23
Interesting and I have sympathy (in the non-patronising way) with all the views so far expressed. The problem of evil is one I have particular empathy with. So five atheist comments so far but not one theist or even spiritual comment yet, fascinating!
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Are we all missing the true 'MARK' of the Wild Beast?
by Newly Enlightened indisclaimer: hubby & i have been watching a 5 dvd documentary on the 'secret's of the founding father's' we're not sure if we believe everything they talk about but here is some interesting things to think about..... revelation mentions that the 'mark' would either be on the forehead, [for everyone to see] or, on the right hand [if you make a fist, it is hidden] rev also says that no one can buy or sell without this mark.
the wtbt$ isn't too clear on what they believe that mark is, so.... what is one thing that we cannot buy or sell without?.
money!.
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Seraphim23
Newly Enlightened, the mark is not money, it more to do with idolatry and the worship of animals or man. 666 which is the symbolism used regarding this mark is taken from Jewish idiomatic language; instances of which are in several earlier places in the bible such as when Nebuchadnezzar built a statue.
Daniel 3:1 King Nebuchadnezzar made an image of gold, sixty cubits high and six cubits wide, and set it up on the plain of Dura in the province of Babylon.
I won’t go into the details but as you can see it has 66 connected to it in terms of cubits, and also later in the chapter 666 is there, but encoded within the lists of the instruments to be played when worship of it was supposed to happen.
Man was created on the sixth day in Genesis, different from the animals but not on the fabled seventh day of rest.
Also note that Goliath the giant also has 666 connected with him in the book of Samuel, and his head is significant in the story as the stone from the catapult kills him. Note also that Nebuchadnezzar’s dream as interpreted by Daniel is destroyed by a stone in the feet. Hands, feet and head ect all had symbolic idiomatic meaning in Jewish culture.
If one puts all this together with an understanding of the Jewish mind, it becomes clear the kind of thing being communicated. 666 is connected to man, idolatry and domination more or less. At the time Revelation was doing the rounds it was almost certainly referring to Rome, not some microchip or money.
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After the cult how many reject faith in anything?
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Seraphim23
I find it fascinating just how many atheists seem to be on this site. Now it may be that their numbers are less that the loudness of their voice suggests, but I am trying to get a handle on the numbers if possible. I’m also interested in how many retain faith after the cult and why? Speaking as a Christian who has done a great deal of thinking and belief revision over the years as evidence of one sort or another penetrates my mind, I can recognise that maintaining any faith is not easy in the 21 st century within a modern developed country, America notwithstanding. As people I don’t have any problem with atheists as my dad identifies as one, despite being married to my mother a JW. I tend to have far more issues with fellow Christians actually because of being gay, less I over complicate the issue. For the record my dad is really agnostic because he is open to the possibility of God or the supernatural if evidence presents itself to him. I don’t want to get into a debate over the problematic definition of atheism as opposed to agnosticism though. I just want to get into the why and wherefores.
In my own journey I started out a JW then left at 19 after a breakdown. Came to terms with my sexuality and psychic gifts for want of a better description and then got to grips with evolution. I accepted that as true and moved on to philosophy and science in general. After all this I still see good reasons for a God although never proof, as that strictly speaking is only relevant to mathematics. Such may be a small point to some but to me it is a highly relevant one. My psychic gifts don’t give good direct evidence for God in my mind interestingly enough, but that would be a deep subject to get into but they certainly help to convince me that there is more to reality than science and so on. My own reason for still having a faith despite the abuses of religion is largely a philosophical one, along with some evidence I cannot honestly dismiss. Obviously I don’t expect any consensus on any of this, as there hasn’t been one since human beings evolved but I would be interested in other people’s views and own reasons for maintaining or rejecting faith or atheism.
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Ever Have A Close Call?
by rocketman inyesterday i had a close call on the road - an out-of-control pickup truck veered into my lane, spinning as it approached and crashed into a pole about 50 feet in front of my car.
this is the second close encounter i've had, (both involving someone driving a pickup truck).
in this case, a couple of seconds made a huge difference, since i may have been directly hit had i just been a bit further along in my drive.. i would imagine that once a few days pass, i'll give less and less thought to the incident and i doubt it will precipitate major changes in my life or outlook (which i generally think is pretty healthy).
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Seraphim23
An Australian friend of mine who was an atheist, had a close call on a British motorway. A big lorry was parallel to him driving at about 70 miles per hour as he was on an adjacent lane. He suddenly had a thought in his mind that he felt wasn’t his own thought, as was not how his mind would normally think in previous similar situations, to slow down and let this lorry get ahead. So he did so and a few seconds later another thought came into his mind in the same way saying “what have you done with your life?” A few second later his tire blew out and he careered across the road spinning as he went. He could not regain control of his car and closed his eyes for the inevitable crash. Somehow, his car spinning as it went got across and ended up in what we call the `hard shoulder` which is an unused lane for breakdowns and emergency vehicles at the edge of the motorway. A year previous to this his grandmother (now deceased) was visiting him in the UK and he was driving down the same stretch of motorway with her and she suddenly said that she did not like this motorway. As he was recovering after this close call he remembered what she had said. This happened last year but to this day my friend cannot understand how his car made it to the safe side, as this motorway was packed with cars.
My friend is now an agnostic due to this and is considering the direction of his life in order to make it more meaningful.
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Enemies Of Reason -Richard Dawkins
by frankiespeakin inhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcs751gcp10.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52j5stxkbkq.
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Seraphim23
return of parakeet if it wasnt like a faith you wouldnt feel the need to ask me that question as it wouldnt bother you what I thought.
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Enemies Of Reason -Richard Dawkins
by frankiespeakin inhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcs751gcp10.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52j5stxkbkq.
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Seraphim23
I tend to agree with the sentiment of Cold Steel. Atheism is just like a religion and it seems to think believers are all fundamentalists which they are not of course. Proving that serpents can’t talk seems like a victory against faith but it its only one against fundamentalists. Many Christians don’t take it literally. I believe in the supernatural for example but I also don’t believe Satan exists.
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The Watchtower abandons their 1914 doctrine!
by Seraphim23 inhttp://www.watchman.org/blog/index.php/watchtower-society-changes-doctrine-of-1914-again/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=feed%3a+watchmanfellowship+%28watchman+fellowship%29.
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not sure how to show the link properly..
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Seraphim23
Perhaps the word abandons is a bit to strong but to be fair the article itself used this title: “Watchtower Society Changes Doctrine of 1914 (Again).”
I typed the title to the thread in my own words and I used the word `abandoned` due to my own view, which no one is forced to agree with, that 1914 and subsequent doctrinal evolutionary developments were largely built on the 1914 doctrine, including the 1919 inspection of the FDS ect. Obviously in actuality as soon that they abandoned the 1914 doctrine proper, other built upon doctrines were no longer valid, yet they kept to them and shed some as time went by but this is the last one. The 1914 doctrine was not just one doctrine but several hanging together and co-dependent on each. So in this way they have now completely dispensed with the 1914 and related doctrines.
wannabefree thats a good point you make.