Posts by no-zombie

58

Two witness rule: who cares?

by _Morpheus in

i find people railing against the so called “two witness rule” puzzling.

i think its a complete and total non issue.

for those that protest, argue or advocate for change in that rule, why?

while I get what you are saying, I believe that you are missing one important point. In that, your view is that of a person who sees the religion as it really is ... but the people (and their children) at risk do not. They believe that it is 'the' one true faith and as such follow the rules of that faith, which includes viewing the Elders as judges. The rank and file Jehovah's Witness can only see things through that lens.

For that reason, its only by external pressure or exposure that the danger of sexual child abuse can be lessened, as the Organization is clearly unwilling to revise their own policies.

An before you bite me head off, I also understand the big difference between dissdelowshiping someone and justice, particularity in regard to this problem ... however if the goal is to purely reduces (and hopefully stop) child sexual abuse within this religion, then any action to that end, which includes the removal of the two witness rule ... is worth the effort.

27

My story

by Leeny in

i came across this website when i was looking for some emotional/mental support lately as i was summoned by elders to explain someone’s report on me saying “i’m promoting homosexuality”.

i’m inactive, not attending meetings or associating with jw outside of my biological family for almost 2 years now.. yes i am gay (you can judge away) and yes it is in a direct contrast to the scriptures, no arguement about it.. i was brought up in a jw family.

my dad is a typical zealot, he literally talks or thinks about the bible 24/7.

no-zombie

Hi Lenny,

As an ex-elder, I can say (rather sadly) that if the elder body has already determined that a judicial committee is warranted, they already have enough 'facts' to disfellowship you ... and they are only calling to see if you are repentant. This being the case, moving away will not stop the process as you will be judged as unrepentant, in absentia. However, turning up for one's judicial hearing has often been discusses on this site. And while some chose to go to make a closing statement of some kind (even when they have predetermined to leave anyway), it never changes the outcome.

While the choice is of course yours, all of us here recommend people to first and foremost protect their mental and emotional health ... and whatever happens or choice you make ... you are always welcome to talk things through here.

22

Commuter Bethelite video

by no-zombie in

for those who missed last weeks clam meeting, there was a video played that was amazing ... however not in good way.. we are all aware how thousands of full time bethelites world wide got the boot and put out onto the street.

some having giving most of their lives to the organization, but often with no real way to support themselves other than to depend on the generosity of others.

so when this video talked about how special it would be for those who could step up and become a commuter bethelite, it made me think how calculating the governing body must be.

no-zombie

For those who missed last weeks CLAM meeting, there was a video played that was amazing ... however not in good way.

We are all aware how thousands of full time Bethelites world wide got the boot and put out onto the street. Some having giving most of their lives to the Organization, but often with no real way to support themselves other than to depend on the generosity of others. So when this video talked about how special it would be for those who could step up and become a Commuter Bethelite, it made me think how calculating the Governing Body must be. You see, they get rid of the full-timers to save money, saying that their jobs are gone due to downsizing, use of technology or whatever spin they used, and after a bit, effectively re-advertised their positions as unpaid (and unhoused) roles.

While I've seen this sort of method used when large corporations restructure, but it was not nice seeing it being done here.

Of courses, many may not much sympathy for these who got shafted, and to be honest I don't have a lot for them myself. But I thought that this video once again was a good example of how coldly the Governing Body really views people and their labour, while also demonstrating how short the memory the rank and file brotherhood has regarding what been happening during the 'simplification'.

This being said, if I was an exbethelite siting the audience watching that video, it wouldn't have sat well. That's for sure.

18

Am I shunned here?

by caves in

lately i been sifting though my many emotions after being here on this site.

i feel ive been all over the map just trying to come to grips with the information.

but through all this i feel i'm shunned here as of late due to my (all over the place =-ness).

no-zombie

Hi Caves

You seem to be having a hard time of it at the moment. I don't believe that your thoughts and feeling are usual in that many of us have gone through a similar turmoil of feeling alone. I know I have. But like others have commented here, writing a post is often quite hard to express one deeper thoughts and often I've deleted a half finished post because it just doesn't sound right.

Ultimately though, we shouldn't take the words of others too personally, but rather try to just conciser them as just another opinion, one that may in fact be completely wrong. Hard I know when it seems cutting ... but that's what we got to do ... or we'll end up constantly feeling hurt and never get the benefits this place can offer.

It may seem like a long road at times but don't give up, you'll make it in the end.

no-zombie

8

Kingdom Hall sales - A question?

by no-zombie in

a little while ago, comments appeared here about the sale of about 3000 halls and an american boe letter sent discussing a while sweeping congregational reorganization.

does anyone here have a copy of that letter or written proof of plan to downsize, that they are willing to share?.

no-zombie

A little while ago, comments appeared here about the sale of about 3000 Halls and an American BOE letter sent discussing a while sweeping congregational reorganization. Does anyone here have a copy of that letter or written proof of plan to downsize, that they are willing to share?

38

What changes would stabilize JW membership?

by StarryNight9 in

i've seen many topics about how things are changing or might be changing in jw doctrine/culture.

some have extrapolated how those changes would result in declining jw membership.

i'm curious to know what changes others think would stabilize those numbers.

no-zombie

Sadly I think the time for expecting reform has past. I once held out hope for it a few years ago but its clear now the path that the Governing Body has taken is more and more hard line. The recent readjustment of who was a 'bad associate' only goes to show that the Organization will become only more internally critical and judgemental. Clearly the relative "social" congregations of the 80s are well and truly over and we should expect heaver demands of our loyal.

Its good in one way ... it will just piss of more people and disengage even more kids from continuing.

20

Anyone notice there has not been any announcement for the annual meeting broadcast this year?

by nowwhat? in

let the speculation begin!.

no-zombie

I though it was in October sometime.

89

why the watchtower is so short of money

by pepperheart in

the watchtower is so short of money because they have to pay for all the upkeep of so many branch offices around the world.because so many of the branch offices are in very poor countries and they are not balancing the budgets.

no-zombie

Oh come on guys, I just cant get it. The age demographics of the Brotherhood is everything. Even whole nations die out because this principle. That's why industrialized nations have immigration, to bolster the low local birth rate that most are now in, just to guarantee the replacement of the older tax payers. So just start reading some books on macro economics and history, in stead of depending on the anecdotal stories of "i know a brother, who knows a brother, who knows a Governing Body member". It only the physical evidence and the numbers we have that is real.

LETS REVIEW THE EVIDENCE AGAIN

Kingdom Halls are being sold in numbers never heard of before (with the money going the US)

Assembly Halls are being sold in numbers never done before ... ever (with the money again going the the US)

Congregations merged are being in numbers never done before ... ever.

There is effectively NO new building works.

Most western nations had real falls in Publisher numbers (meaning no young people to replace the old)

The total cut pack in the production of physically printed items.

The bleeding of money through the courts (and the bad press).

And this whole switch to digital more wasn't for free, must of cost millions to setup and its maintenance and bandwidth is not for free either.

These are FACTS.

Only on Bizzaro World, can anyone say that these are the hallmarks of a thriving company with a future.

89

why the watchtower is so short of money

by pepperheart in

the watchtower is so short of money because they have to pay for all the upkeep of so many branch offices around the world.because so many of the branch offices are in very poor countries and they are not balancing the budgets.

no-zombie

I'm sorry for those of my support of SLIM, but no company this is financially solvent will sell of it's assets, particularly when those assets are fully paid for. Its like needlessly selling your furnished to pay bills, when you have cash in the bank.

While I know that they have sold their New York properties for a considerable profit and downsized the HQ, but again I ask, why you sell you prime waterfront property, perhaps the best in the world (again fully paid for) and move into the middle of no-where, if you don't have problems. And the cutbacks to the magazines, books and brochures (all of which are income generators in themselves) are needless too, if the religion is flush with money.

The answer is simple economics, their in-goings were not matching their outgoings.

But why?

An rapidly ageing and poorer western world brotherhood (Watchtower's bread basket)

A rapidly growing but non-contributing 3rd world brotherhood

A rapid loss of funds due to their child abuse lawsuits (which have no sign of ending)

The never ending costs ($200 million USDs per year minimum) for running its empire

and that's the losses we know of ...

BUT IMPORTANTLY, THERE IS NO INDICATION THAT THERE WILL WILL TURN AROUND IN THE FUTURE. EVEN THE ANNUAL REPORTS (AS PUMPED AS THEY ARE) SHOW THE DEFINITE DECLINE. THEY ARE NOT EVEN MATCHING THE WORLD'S POPULATION GROWTH RATE IN MOST PLACES.

I just don't get those who think that Watchtower doesn't have real problems.

13

Could you really trust the Governing Body to the right thing?

by no-zombie in

over the years, many have speculated on how the governing body might reform the society into something that might actually bring some positivity in to the world ... and a resent melancholy moment, i re-watched the youtube clip of usa for africa's, 'we are the world' which was released in 1985. now while i know our men in warwick would never actually consider organizing the brotherhood to do something completely selfless in helping the truly worldly poor, something that would actually improve the religion's reputation ... but the question is ... could you really trust the governing body to run an aid program like usa for africa or band aid, without skimming from the top?.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9bnonfkcbi.

no-zombie

Over the years, many have speculated on how the Governing Body might reform the Society into something that might actually bring some positivity in to the world ... and a resent melancholy moment, I re-watched the YouTube clip of USA for Africa's, 'We are the World' which was released in 1985. Now while I know our men in Warwick would never actually consider organizing the Brotherhood to do something completely selfless in helping the truly worldly poor, something that would actually improve the religion's reputation ... but the question is ... could you really trust the Governing Body to run an aid program like USA for Africa or Band Aid, without skimming from the top?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9BNoNFKCBI