Posts by no-zombie

12

Printed vs Produced

by Rattigan350 in

in the january 1, 2015 watchtower it says printing each issue 52,946,000 in 228 languages semimonthly.

in that 2016 #1 issue watchtower it says produced each issue 58,987,000 in 254 languages monthly.

what is the difference between printed and produced?.

In one context, printed magazines are those printed by the Organization ... whereas produced magazine can those printed by someone else but distributed by the Society. Just as the cars "produced" by Ford, GM or Toyota are assembled from parts (or whole) from other manufactures.

12

More Developments In Australia

by jonahstourguide in

some results of the royal commission in australia.

catholic church ellis defence scrapped in 'momentous day' for abuse survivorsby michelle brownposted about 2 hours ago john ellis speaks to the media outside the nsw supreme court.photo: john ellis, a former lawyer, tried to sue the catholic church for negligence (aap: paul miller)related story: nsw child abuse survivors to be allowed to sue churchesafter an 11-year battle, survivors of institutional child abuse locked out of suing for compensation will be able to launch civil claims from today.key points:the ellis defence prevented abuse survivors from suing unincorporated organisations including churches and other institutionsthe move to scrap it came after recommendations from the royal commission into institutional responses to child sexual abuse.from today, an institution must nominate a defendant with sufficient assets to pay a survivor's claim.the so-called "ellis defence", which prevented abuse survivors from suing unincorporated organisations including churches and other institutions, is today abolished after the nsw government removed a legal road block.the move came after recommendations from the royal commission into institutional child sex abuse.john ellis, whose failed court of appeal case against the catholic church in 2007 gave rise to the defence, has praised the government's action.

"it's fantastic news," he told the abc.

no-zombie

While I'm not a lawyer by any means (nor a current Elder privy congregational arrangements), I do think that legally the Australia Branch doesn't know what to do. Relatively recently, Kingdom Halls/Congregations became individual charities, to no doubt separate Watchtower assets from the Branch. Similar to what has been done in other countries, as I understand.

The paperwork for maintaining these charities is renewed every year. However I heard a few days ago that our congregation was told to hold off on doing it. Whether its linked to the Ellis Defense and the commencement date for the liability of parent organizations to assume responsibility for congregational child abuse claims, I don't know. But it does seem suspicious to me. But if that is linked, then perhaps paying the government fees for continuing the 786 individual charities in the country, rather pointless.

Regardless, it does seems that playing the shell game is over in Australia, and the attempts to legally hide its assets by deflection is not going to work any more ... as once more onus returns back to the branch to provide compensation. This, plus the retrospective ruling will making things a lot harder for the Organization here, which will undoubted lead to more civil actions against it and more sell-offs. Which may even include the Branch complex, which effectively does nothing more that administrative tasks, due to the fact that its printing work has be assigned to Japan and the Design office to an South Sea Island country. 2019 might be rather interesting, in our land down under.

no zombie

17

'Serving where the need is greater' - who does it benefit?

by eyeslice2 in

jw
friends

we have recently been in asia on vacation, travelling to a number of countries in this part of the world.

whilst in thailand, my wife, totally pimo, wanted to go to the english speaking convention in bangkok.

although i haven't been active for a very long time, i went along with her.. the first thing that slightly surprised me was the attendance, well over 900. i hadn't expected that many but they were from all over the country, which is a pretty big place.

no-zombie

I know that its a little off topic but I noticed that here in Australia, quite a few kids going on religo-holidays.

This is were they make all this noise that they are going to serve where the need is great but is in fact its more like an adventure holiday and stay until their money runs out, which is normally 2 or 3 months. South America seem popular, as does Hong Kong. And when they come back, they get their 15 minutes of fame, recalling their hardships and experiences in the field.

27

My story

by Leeny in

i came across this website when i was looking for some emotional/mental support lately as i was summoned by elders to explain someone’s report on me saying “i’m promoting homosexuality”.

i’m inactive, not attending meetings or associating with jw outside of my biological family for almost 2 years now.. yes i am gay (you can judge away) and yes it is in a direct contrast to the scriptures, no arguement about it.. i was brought up in a jw family.

my dad is a typical zealot, he literally talks or thinks about the bible 24/7.

no-zombie

Hi Lenny,

All of us were at one time over whelmed by this basic idea that the "Truth" may not be what it claims to be. And in your case you have the additional issues that revolve around your family and personal life to factor in, which isn't easy. However, the best advice I can give to you, is take things slowly and just focus on one problem or situation at a time, just to keep your sanity.

Questions on the various doctrinal issues is easier to solve that you think too. For many of us have found that just by reading older magazines and publication of the Society, has helped us to see that most of our religion has been created or formulated from opinion rather with direct scriptural authority. But fortunately, there are so much online resources to help in this regard ... you just sort of know where to look. It quite amazing how much effort other have gone to assist others in this regard.

In conclusion, when doing your research, just post a quick question here if you get stuck. As there a lot of guys here that can help you out in give you various ideas or articles to think about.

regards

No Zombie

58

Two witness rule: who cares?

by _Morpheus in

i find people railing against the so called “two witness rule” puzzling.

i think its a complete and total non issue.

for those that protest, argue or advocate for change in that rule, why?

no-zombie

Morpheus,

while I get what you are saying, I believe that you are missing one important point. In that, your view is that of a person who sees the religion as it really is ... but the people (and their children) at risk do not. They believe that it is 'the' one true faith and as such follow the rules of that faith, which includes viewing the Elders as judges. The rank and file Jehovah's Witness can only see things through that lens.

For that reason, its only by external pressure or exposure that the danger of sexual child abuse can be lessened, as the Organization is clearly unwilling to revise their own policies.

An before you bite me head off, I also understand the big difference between dissdelowshiping someone and justice, particularity in regard to this problem ... however if the goal is to purely reduces (and hopefully stop) child sexual abuse within this religion, then any action to that end, which includes the removal of the two witness rule ... is worth the effort.

27

My story

by Leeny in

i came across this website when i was looking for some emotional/mental support lately as i was summoned by elders to explain someone’s report on me saying “i’m promoting homosexuality”.

i’m inactive, not attending meetings or associating with jw outside of my biological family for almost 2 years now.. yes i am gay (you can judge away) and yes it is in a direct contrast to the scriptures, no arguement about it.. i was brought up in a jw family.

my dad is a typical zealot, he literally talks or thinks about the bible 24/7.

no-zombie

Hi Lenny,

As an ex-elder, I can say (rather sadly) that if the elder body has already determined that a judicial committee is warranted, they already have enough 'facts' to disfellowship you ... and they are only calling to see if you are repentant. This being the case, moving away will not stop the process as you will be judged as unrepentant, in absentia. However, turning up for one's judicial hearing has often been discusses on this site. And while some chose to go to make a closing statement of some kind (even when they have predetermined to leave anyway), it never changes the outcome.

While the choice is of course yours, all of us here recommend people to first and foremost protect their mental and emotional health ... and whatever happens or choice you make ... you are always welcome to talk things through here.

22

Commuter Bethelite video

by no-zombie in

for those who missed last weeks clam meeting, there was a video played that was amazing ... however not in good way.. we are all aware how thousands of full time bethelites world wide got the boot and put out onto the street.

some having giving most of their lives to the organization, but often with no real way to support themselves other than to depend on the generosity of others.

so when this video talked about how special it would be for those who could step up and become a commuter bethelite, it made me think how calculating the governing body must be.

no-zombie

For those who missed last weeks CLAM meeting, there was a video played that was amazing ... however not in good way.

We are all aware how thousands of full time Bethelites world wide got the boot and put out onto the street. Some having giving most of their lives to the Organization, but often with no real way to support themselves other than to depend on the generosity of others. So when this video talked about how special it would be for those who could step up and become a Commuter Bethelite, it made me think how calculating the Governing Body must be. You see, they get rid of the full-timers to save money, saying that their jobs are gone due to downsizing, use of technology or whatever spin they used, and after a bit, effectively re-advertised their positions as unpaid (and unhoused) roles.

While I've seen this sort of method used when large corporations restructure, but it was not nice seeing it being done here.

Of courses, many may not much sympathy for these who got shafted, and to be honest I don't have a lot for them myself. But I thought that this video once again was a good example of how coldly the Governing Body really views people and their labour, while also demonstrating how short the memory the rank and file brotherhood has regarding what been happening during the 'simplification'.

This being said, if I was an exbethelite siting the audience watching that video, it wouldn't have sat well. That's for sure.

18

Am I shunned here?

by caves in

lately i been sifting though my many emotions after being here on this site.

i feel ive been all over the map just trying to come to grips with the information.

but through all this i feel i'm shunned here as of late due to my (all over the place =-ness).

no-zombie

Hi Caves

You seem to be having a hard time of it at the moment. I don't believe that your thoughts and feeling are usual in that many of us have gone through a similar turmoil of feeling alone. I know I have. But like others have commented here, writing a post is often quite hard to express one deeper thoughts and often I've deleted a half finished post because it just doesn't sound right.

Ultimately though, we shouldn't take the words of others too personally, but rather try to just conciser them as just another opinion, one that may in fact be completely wrong. Hard I know when it seems cutting ... but that's what we got to do ... or we'll end up constantly feeling hurt and never get the benefits this place can offer.

It may seem like a long road at times but don't give up, you'll make it in the end.

no-zombie

8

Kingdom Hall sales - A question?

by no-zombie in

a little while ago, comments appeared here about the sale of about 3000 halls and an american boe letter sent discussing a while sweeping congregational reorganization.

does anyone here have a copy of that letter or written proof of plan to downsize, that they are willing to share?.

no-zombie

A little while ago, comments appeared here about the sale of about 3000 Halls and an American BOE letter sent discussing a while sweeping congregational reorganization. Does anyone here have a copy of that letter or written proof of plan to downsize, that they are willing to share?

38

What changes would stabilize JW membership?

by StarryNight9 in

i've seen many topics about how things are changing or might be changing in jw doctrine/culture.

some have extrapolated how those changes would result in declining jw membership.

i'm curious to know what changes others think would stabilize those numbers.

no-zombie

Sadly I think the time for expecting reform has past. I once held out hope for it a few years ago but its clear now the path that the Governing Body has taken is more and more hard line. The recent readjustment of who was a 'bad associate' only goes to show that the Organization will become only more internally critical and judgemental. Clearly the relative "social" congregations of the 80s are well and truly over and we should expect heaver demands of our loyal.

Its good in one way ... it will just piss of more people and disengage even more kids from continuing.