Posts by apocalypse

18

Ask any JW this line of questioning.

by apocalypse in

if you have opportunity to enter a discussion with a jw (i am still active so for me it's not a problem) ask this line of questions.. q) are you going to go to the red cross to give blood?.

a) they will answer speedily... no!

(without hesitation).

apocalypse

>"I can't WAIT to see what he has to say!

>>I can't wait either. Make sure you tell us.

18

Ask any JW this line of questioning.

by apocalypse in

if you have opportunity to enter a discussion with a jw (i am still active so for me it's not a problem) ask this line of questions.. q) are you going to go to the red cross to give blood?.

a) they will answer speedily... no!

(without hesitation).

apocalypse

If you have opportunity to enter a discussion with a JW (I am still active so for me it's not a problem) ask this line of questions.

Q) Are you going to go to the Red Cross to give blood?

A) They will answer speedily... NO! (without hesitation)

Q) Why do you feel that way?

A) They will answer that 'blood must be poured out' etc.

Q) Are you personally willing to accept fractions of others blood?

This is where the fun begins.

They have the option of a quick NO! Almost certainly they will not choose this, as they would be an immediate liar. They know that they are willing to take whatever the Governing Gods in Brooklyn dictate they can without sanction because simply put, they want to live! You can have some fun with that answer, by utilizing statements like "You'd rather die than take an immunization etc"

They have the option of saying YES! This is even more fun, as you can now express how hipocritical it is to accept blood products made from "worldly" people's blood, but be unwilling to donate. And how of course are you treating the law that "blood must bepoured out" if you are using some?

What will most likely happen is they will hesitate, unsure of how to respond. But this is the most deadly for you can then ask "Why the difference? How is it you responded so quickly to the first question, but now hesitate on this one?"

"WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE?" is the final question that drives the nail home, right into their skull.

10

ALERT ---Sunday's Watchtower Study!

by apocalypse in

the watchtower study for august 1, 2004 (w 6/15/04) is an attempt to encourage the use of blood products.

that?s a bold statement, but it is true and this post is written to prove it.

furthermore, prepare your comments for sunday?s study now.

apocalypse

I asked a fellow 'dub' at work "what fraction of fornication will you be taking?"

He looked at me with a gasp!

I said "paragraph 7 discussed Acts 15:28, 29 and made clear that blood was just as "morally vital" an issue as abstaing from immorality or idol worship, so if you can take a fraction of blood, then what fractions of fornication or idol worship will you be engaging in today?"

He shrugged it off.

I am getting out my shovel.

Apoc.... pit-digger class.

10

ALERT ---Sunday's Watchtower Study!

by apocalypse in

the watchtower study for august 1, 2004 (w 6/15/04) is an attempt to encourage the use of blood products.

that?s a bold statement, but it is true and this post is written to prove it.

furthermore, prepare your comments for sunday?s study now.

apocalypse

Well, on Sunday I gave my comment. I said that "some may take blood products, because they feel it's OK. But others feel that since, as the Watchtower points out on page 30 paragraph 4 that that "requires that blood be collected processed" that they feel it is wrong, after all no JW would give his blood to be used in this process, nor would they work in one of the factories where all these products are made, so why would they use these products"

The conductor said "yes, we can then see the balanced viewpoint"

What a moron!

Jesus had it right. Let the blind lead the blind for they will both fall into the pit.

24

Comments You Will Not Hear at the August 1, 2004 WT Study

by blondie in

comments you will not hear at the august 1, 2004 wt study (june 15, 2004 issue)

review comments will be in black and parentheses ()

wt quotes

apocalypse

Good work Blondie. I see you posted this yesterday. I made a post just the day before you comvering one same point.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/11/75940/1.ashx

10

ALERT ---Sunday's Watchtower Study!

by apocalypse in

the watchtower study for august 1, 2004 (w 6/15/04) is an attempt to encourage the use of blood products.

that?s a bold statement, but it is true and this post is written to prove it.

furthermore, prepare your comments for sunday?s study now.

apocalypse

The Watchtower study for August 1, 2004 (w 6/15/04) is an attempt to encourage the use of blood products.

That?s a bold statement, but it is true and this post is written to prove it.

Furthermore, prepare your comments for Sunday?s study now. You will see why.

First, let?s be reminded that there are groups that refuse medical treatment altogether. Jehovah?s Witnesses have been lumped together with these ones on more than one occasion. The Watchtower has, in the past, worked hard to differentiate itself from these other cults by highlighting their ?stand on blood? as unique and the ?efforts? made by Jehovah?s Witnesses to procure ?acceptable? medical treatment that?s ?in-line? with ?Bible principles?. For example, here we have a yearbook giving an account of a defense.

*** yb71 p. 210 Country Reports (Part Two) ***

?As often happens in such circumstances, the teacher, with a wry smile, explained that the Witnesses are a strange group that go around bothering people and refuse all medical treatment, etc. A young sister belonging to this class could keep quiet no longer and asked to be permitted to explain our position on these things.?

The Watchtower wants the world to believe that basically, Jehovah?s Witnesses are not freaks who refuse all medical treatment like ?some cults?, but rather encourages medical treatment, save blood therapies.

This truth is at the heart of the recent blood change. That fact is betrayed in the article to be discussed on Sunday. On page 23, in paragraph 16, we read ?

?Still others may accept injections of a plasma protein to fight disease or to counteract snake venom,..?

Note : To refuse ?whole blood? as is now the catch phrase in the Watchtower?s world, is rather meaningless. One may as well say? ?we reject Martian blood? for they are almost as likely to receive that as they are ?whole blood?. The giving of whole blood is becoming more and more rare due to the fact that a pint of blood can be stretched a lot farther by separating it into components and administering only that part which is needed. With a growing scarcity of willing donors, this practice is increasingly advantageous.

Returning to the above statement, if Jehovah?s Witnesses as an organization were to adopt a policy of ?no fractions allowed?, then simply put they would refuse a large bulk of medical treatment altogether since blood therapies are increasingly becoming prevalent.

They would then be referred to as ?refusing all medical treatment?, even if they still took some, for their refusal of such a wide array of treatments. { i.e.: burns, snake anti-venom, vaccinations, Rh (for Rhesus), factor 8 & 9 (hemophilia), new non-blood substitutes that are still blood based (surgery), and the list goes on}

Educated persons, especially in the medical field, have long realized the duplicitous position taken by the Watchtower. But here?s the hypocrisy. And I am sure it?s going to come out on Sunday.

Sunday comment on page 22 (chart)

Here where it says ?Christian to decide?, we don?t want to confuse this with ?OK for Christians?. After all, the Watchtower has been quite clear on this issue, when the w00 10/15 Questions from readers, just a few months after the article reprinted for us in this magazine, says ?collecting, storing, and transfusing of blood directly contradicts what is said in Leviticus and Deuteronomy?, and we know that only ?worldly blood? is used for these products as no ?true Christian? would donate blood or have his blood stored and none of us would work in a factory where this un-scriptural activity takes place, so why would we accept the products of a clearly un-scriptural process.

Here?s the lark. The Watchtower is trying to ENCOURAGE JWs to use blood products to take off the heat from authorities that is coming its way. Yet, stating what the Watchtower has already CARVED IN STONE regarding the collection and storage of blood completely undoes their efforts to do so and shoves Watchtower dogma right down their throats.

Sorry brothers and sisters, no wiggle room here. You want your Watchtower gods in Brooklyn, you can die for them! Eat it!!

Do we all see the hypocrisy? If the Watchtower teaches, as the below Q from R, quoting the Jewish Soncino Chumash states ??blood must not be stored but rendered unfit?? then from where do Jehovah?s Witness get their blood products? Do you suppose that the governing body inspects the processes? Perhaps Dan Sydlik slips by Baxter Transfusion Therapies on Mondays to make sure JWs blood therapies are kosher? OK for JW blood products would have to be made from blood that was dumped on the ground first, then scooped up and dumped into the centrifuge for separation?? Coffee filter first I hope! http://www.baxtertransfusiontherapies.com/

And it would have to be fresh, for the storage of blood is a no no!

Soon, at Armageddon, all the unrighteous blood donors will be dead, then no more blood products for JWs??

I here reprint the Q from R that is four months newer light than the Q from R discussed in Sundays study.

*** Multiple Articles ***

*** w00 10/15 p. 30 Questions From Readers ***

Questions From Readers

In the light of Bible commands about the proper use of blood, how do Jehovah?s Witnesses view medical procedures using one?s own blood?

Rather than deciding solely on the basis of personal preference or some medical recommendation, each Christian ought to consider seriously what the Bible says. It is a matter between him and Jehovah.

Jehovah, to whom we owe our lives, decreed that blood should not be consumed. (Genesis 9:3, 4) In the Law for ancient Israel, God limited the use of blood because it represents life. He decreed: ?The soul [or life] of the flesh is in the blood, and I myself have put it upon the altar for you to make atonement for your souls.? What if a man killed an animal for food? God said: ?He must in that case pour its blood out and cover it with dust.? (Leviticus 17:11, 13) Jehovah repeated this command again and again. (Deuteronomy 12:16, 24; 15:23) The Jewish Soncino Chumash notes: ?The blood must not be stored but rendered unfit for consumption by pouring it on the ground.? No Israelite was to appropriate, store, and use the blood of another creature, whose life belonged to God.

The obligation to keep the Mosaic Law ended when the Messiah died. Yet, God?s view of the sacredness of blood remains. Moved by God?s holy spirit, the apostles directed Christians to ?abstain from blood.? That command was not to be taken lightly. It was as important morally as abstaining from sexual immorality or idolatry. (Acts 15:28, 29; 21:25) When donating and transfusing blood became common in the 20th century, Jehovah?s Witnesses understood that this practice conflicted with God?s Word.

Occasionally, a doctor will urge a patient to deposit his own blood weeks before surgery (preoperative autologous blood donation, or PAD) so that if the need arises, he could transfuse the patient with his own stored blood. However, such collecting, storing, and transfusing of blood directly contradicts what is said in Leviticus and Deuteronomy. Blood is not to be stored; it is to be poured out?returned to God, as it were. Granted,

21

Question about letters to society.

by laurelin in

hi.. i was reading another post about asking for your personal files.

i was wondering if anyone knew if the society send copies of letters you have sent to them to your congregation.. i recently sent them a letter asking about the old information about the 1914 generation on their website.. i received a letter back from them that didn't answer the question (what's new) but was more a slap on the wrist for even deigning to ask.

i was directed to a couple of articles about the apreciation and good use of older publications and told that older light had to be taken into regard with newer light and that older books still have their worth as long as we use newer ones as well.... talk about confusing.. anyway, i was wondering if they would send the elders in my congregation a copy of my letter to them?.

apocalypse

I wrote the Canadian Branch once. I pointed out a contradiction in their teaching. The local body was informed.

Back then, I still 'beleived' in the mighty org. So I was gentle, nonetheless I pointed to the contradiction.

They wrote back using 2 Timothy "foolish reasonings" and didn't even attempt to "explain it away"... or did they....in their own way.

God's "Corporation" as found in Scripture. As taught by "God's corporation"

by apocalypse in

w81 10/1 p. 22 ?who really is the faithful steward, the discreet one??

11 reason, backed up by similar scriptural examples, makes it clear that the ?steward?

(oikonomos) pictures a class, a collective body, corresponding to a juristic person, a legal person like a corporation that is recognized by the law of the land.

apocalypse

*** w81 10/1 p. 22 ?Who Really Is the Faithful Steward, the Discreet One?? *** 11 Reason, backed up by similar Scriptural examples, makes it clear that the ?steward? (oikonómos) pictures a class, a collective body, corresponding to a juristic person, a legal person like a corporation that is recognized by the law of the land. (the Government of the United States of America)

1

Clergy/Laity among the Watchtower

by apocalypse in

distinction within the watchtower?

all one has to do is turn to the writings of the ?faithful and discreet slave?

to find the answer.

apocalypse

Is there a ?clergy/laity? distinction within the Watchtower?

All one has to do is turn to the writings of the ?faithful and discreet slave? to find the answer.

When referring to themselves, they lack not in the use of glowing terminology in the art of self-glorification.

For example:

*** w67 2/15 pp. 113-

With symbolic hair ?growing luxuriantly,? ?. Down to this year 1967, the ?faithful and discreet slave,? the anointed remnant of Jehovah?s witnesses, has served loyally in Jehovah?s strength, ?

*** w66 10/1 p. 607

The ?faithful and discreet slave? class, both in the days of the apostles and in modern times, has been faithfully carrying ?

*** w03 11/1 p.

We are thankful to Jehovah for making all these provisions available through ?the faithful and discreet slave.? ? How we love to express our gratitude ?

*** w64 6/15 p. 365 Jehovah, the God of Progressive Revelation ***

? Jehovah?s purposes ? revealed to Jehovah?s anointed ?clear evidence that they are the ones mentioned by Jesus when he foretold a ?faithful and discreet slave? class that would be used to dispense God?s progressive revelations in these last days. Of this class Jesus said: ?Truly I say to you, He will appoint him over all his belongings.??Matt. 24:47.

Now, how do the ?anointed? view the rest of Dubland.

Watchtower June 1, 2004 Page 17-18 par. 15 (next week's study)

Naturally, pioneers are appreciated by fellow Christians for their faithful service. But the fact that they spend more time in the ministry does not make them feel superior to their brothers and sisters. Rather, they cultivate the attitude encouraged by Jesus: ?We are good for nothing slaves. What we have done is what we ought to have done.? Luke 17:10

Supposedly, everything Jesus talked about was to be applied to the ?anointed? first, and then the ?lesser? Earthly class secondly.

Has the Watchtower ever applied Luke 17:10 to themselves? I think NOT! But they like to put dubs IN THEIR PLACE!

So, clearly, the attitude of the ?faithful and discreet? class toward the ?good for nothing class? is revealed as found in the following Watchtower article.

w60 4/1 pp. 208-209 Religious Attitudes When the Master Preached

THE ?PEOPLE OF THE EARTH?

10 The Hebrew expression am ha-arets means ?people of the earth [or, land]{or dub}.? (Jer. 1:18, marginal footnote) These people were treated like dirt under the feet of the Pharisees {anointed}, and, of course, the Sadducees {governing body} had nothing to do with them, because they looked down on everyone. The am ha-arets were poor laborers {at Bethel} who did not know the Law {Watchtower} or the traditions {Awake} or did not keep them. They did not recite the formal prayers {at Kingdom Halls}, have ritual fringes on their garments {Armani suits} or wear phylacteries {ties} at devotions {meetings}, nor did they train their sons in the traditions as did the scrupulous Jews. They were hated and outlawed from the community by the rabbis. One rabbi denied them all hope of a resurrection, and Rabbi Hillel said: ?No am ha-arets is truly religious.? A good Jew would not let his daughter marry one. Their view was: ?Let not a man associate with sinners even to bring them near to the Torah.? When the religionists objected to Jesus? associating with sinners, they doubtless included this class. {The ?good-for-nothing? class}

12

Back from the District Convention!

by apocalypse in

is there a way to put up audio clips for all to listen to?

i have a few doozies.. man, i lost count of the times they were hammering on "the slave"... obey the slave blah blah and "have faith in the organization.".

"keep repeating the lie, and it will eventually take on a life of its own".

apocalypse

I am going to email some juicy clips to RR and he is going to put them up.