Posts by fjtoth

107

Ray Franz And Things That Are Too Hard To Handle.

by Englishman in

jw
friends

i see that ray franz is coming in for a fair bit of criticism due to his apparrant unwillingness to accept that jw's had a problem with the existence of child abuse when he was a member of the gb.

also, it would appear that ray is being chided for his belief in the rule of 2 witnesses before action can be taken against an abuser.

it seems to me that it is quite likely that ray wasn't aware that there was a serious abuse problem within the society when he was a member of the gb, if only for the reason that ray would find such an activity so detestable that he would believe it to be a virtually impossible act for anyone to perpetrate.

fjtoth

SLOAN,

If "silentlambs" will let it die, so will we: See http://www.channelc.org/cgi-bin/eboard30/index.cgi.

fjtoth

77

Let's Blame Ray Franz For Everything!!!

by minimus in

jw
friends

i continue to read how franz is to blame for every wrong because, after all, he was on the governing body and he had to know everything that went on.

some here say, "let's drop this issue".

these same ones continue to bring it up.

fjtoth

Scumrat,

Call it people bashing if you want, but I for one contributed remarks in someone's defense. Instead of bashing the rest of us, wouldn't it be a wiser use of your time to spend it in other threads?

fjtoth

77

Let's Blame Ray Franz For Everything!!!

by minimus in

jw
friends

i continue to read how franz is to blame for every wrong because, after all, he was on the governing body and he had to know everything that went on.

some here say, "let's drop this issue".

these same ones continue to bring it up.

fjtoth

Pettygrudger,

"Silentlambs" is the name used by Bill Bowen to sign his posts. As I understand it, that's the way he wants to be addressed. So, if there's a problem, I think you need to address your remarks to him and not the rest of us.

fjtoth

77

Let's Blame Ray Franz For Everything!!!

by minimus in

jw
friends

i continue to read how franz is to blame for every wrong because, after all, he was on the governing body and he had to know everything that went on.

some here say, "let's drop this issue".

these same ones continue to bring it up.

fjtoth

New Eyes,

So where in his book have you read something for which he ought to be condemned? Have you even read his "book"? Which one?

And can you state in clear terms the "policy" he wrote. I'll bet you can't, yet you're eager to condemn a good and decent man simply because of what others say. I'd hate to have you on the jury in any courtroom where I had been falsely accused. As I've stated above, I wonder if those who stand ready to denounce Franz have any idea what fairness and honesty are.

fjtoth

107

Ray Franz And Things That Are Too Hard To Handle.

by Englishman in

jw
friends

i see that ray franz is coming in for a fair bit of criticism due to his apparrant unwillingness to accept that jw's had a problem with the existence of child abuse when he was a member of the gb.

also, it would appear that ray is being chided for his belief in the rule of 2 witnesses before action can be taken against an abuser.

it seems to me that it is quite likely that ray wasn't aware that there was a serious abuse problem within the society when he was a member of the gb, if only for the reason that ray would find such an activity so detestable that he would believe it to be a virtually impossible act for anyone to perpetrate.

fjtoth

IslandWoman,

Thanks for contributing something so reasonable and balanced, just as you often do.

As I've stated elsewhere in these threads, I wonder if those who stand ready to denounce Franz have any idea what fairness and honesty are. In their minds, he's guilty of doing something wrong simply because he's been ACCUSED. While some are willing to let the subject be dropped, "silentlambs" isn't. As recently as two days ago, in another forum, he went into another tirade against Franz. (http://www.channelc.org/cgi-bin/eboard30/index.cgi) Yet, I don't see Franz doing the same against "silentlambs" anywhere.

I was at Bethel all the years Franz was there. None of his actual statements quoted in this forum or in any other are contrary to the real situation back then. "Silentlambs" was not at Bethel during that period, yet he puts on the pretense of knowing even what most members of the Governing Body and other leaders didn't know. He now has a large number of enemies among ex-JWs. That is his own doing. Before he started with his accusations, we were probably 99 percent supportive of both men and their unique ministries. It was the ridiculously abusive assertions of "silentlambs" that divided us so sharply into what some now view as two opposing camps.

fjtoth

77

Let's Blame Ray Franz For Everything!!!

by minimus in

jw
friends

i continue to read how franz is to blame for every wrong because, after all, he was on the governing body and he had to know everything that went on.

some here say, "let's drop this issue".

these same ones continue to bring it up.

fjtoth

Waiting,

So that makes you wrong too, doesn't it?

I wonder if those who stand ready to denounce Franz have any idea what fairness and honesty are. Why is the accused automatically wrong in some way just because he has been ACCUSED. While some are willing to let the subject be dropped, "silentlambs" isn't. As recently as two days ago, in another forum, he went into another tirade against Franz. (http://www.channelc.org/cgi-bin/eboard30/index.cgi) Yet, I don't see Franz doing the same against "silentlambs" anywhere.

I was at Bethel during the entire period when Franz served there as a writer, and I can honestly say that I haven't seen any of his actual statements quoted in this forum or in any other that is contrary to the real situation back then. "Silentlambs" was not at Bethel during that period, yet he puts on the pretense of knowing even what most members of the Governing Body and other leaders didn't know. Any enemies he now has among ex-JWs is his own doing. Before he started with his accusations, we were probably 99 percent supportive of both men and their unique ministries. It was the hotheaded and thoughtles actions of "silentlambs" that divided us so sharply into what some now view as two opposing camps.

fjtoth

70

new service report (upturn)

by whatiloveaboutwater in

jw
friends

.

has anyone seen the new figures in the jan 1st watchtower - i have.

what do you think about them?.

fjtoth

Marvin,

To me, your final paragraph is especially interesting. It doesn't at all appear, as the WT Society claims, that "Jehovah is speeding up the work in these last days." If he and his spirit had anything to do with it, the work would be reaping greater and faster results, not less and less.

Frank

103