Posts by Marcos

15

What will the WT become? (Sort of a Survey)

by Marcos in

i have been out for a long time.

to give you an idea of how long, the concept of not offering subscriptions anymore is news to me!.

as they continue consolidating and down-sizing, what affect do you all think this will have on individual witnesses and on their organization as a whole?

Marcos

I have been out for a long time. To give you an idea of how long, the concept of not offering subscriptions anymore is news to me!

As they continue consolidating and down-sizing, what affect do you all think this will have on individual witnesses and on their organization as a whole? As I have stated before, I know that many of the "brothers" are nice, sincere people. But in the light of Jamestown, the group who commited mass suicide in San Diego, and the Dravidians; where are the JWs headed?

Personally, I think that the mass-suicide concept is probably not a viable scenario. But, what is likely? Isolationism seems to lead in a couple of distinct directions: Japan and N. Korea are examples. Just my idea.

Japan developed and refined their culture. A lot of neat things and a lot of not so good things. North Korea seems (according to reports) pretty much all bad. Just my take on it.

What do you think?

Marcos

24

ARE YOU a FUNDIE? (quiz)

by Sirona in

ok. fundies.

i'm sick and tired of them.

i'm talking particularly about christian fundies.. what really grates on my nerves is that these people don't even realise they are fundies.

Marcos

Hi Sirona,

In response to this and a previous post you made.

I am a fundamentalist Christian. I personally believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God. However, I personally dont attend a church and dont even believe it is necessary. For me, it is one of the things that is a fine thing to do but not a requirement.

I have never found a church that adheres to the true teachings of the Bible.

I am wrong about a lot of things and very willing to study and investigate to see if my beliefs are true. I have investigated, personally, other ways of looking at life. I approached a few, although not by any means all, alternative world views from shamanistic teachings in America and Japan as well as other more organized disciplines like Buddhism.

My experience has led me to conclude that the Christian perspective is the one that best suits me. However, my faith does not lead me to tell others that they are WRONG. We each are responsible for our own chosen course in life. My friends and associates range from Christian to Pagan. Normally, the only time I am interested in discussing my faith is if someone asks me a question. Converting the world is not the Great Commission as I see it.

My only problem is when anyone denies others the right to freely believe what they will. My take on it is that I have as much right to my beliefs as you or anyone else. Being told to shut up because I dont agree with you smacks of watchtowerism as well as a host of other -isms.

I presume you are saying that being a pagan is wrong? What, for that matter, is wrong with choosing to be atheist?

Yes, I think paganism is wrong. But, that is MY take on it. If you wish to pursue that course, it is certainly your right and I would not deny you that option. I think being an atheist is wrong. But, if one never investigates the arguments of atheism, how is it possible to condemn the atheist? Many people, pagans and atheists included, never seem to try to empathize with the reasoning and motivation behind another individuals choice.

I'm sick of fundamentalists condemning something they know very little about.

The same might be said of people who condemn those of us who believe that Bible. Having been in or exposed to the Watchtower hardly qualifies one to comment on what is or is not Christianity.

By the way, lumping pagans with people who "worship stones" or "new agers" betrays your complete ignorance of the whole group of religions that are non-christian.

True, my own direct experience tells me this.

Also, please realise that non-christians are not all immoral.

Also true (based on my on-going experiences).

You paint the picture that those who don't fall into your imaginary acceptable category are debased.

Perhaps that was not the intent of the author of this thread. I dont know because I dont know him.

Despite the hypocrisy of individuals, despite the immorality that is visible today, you might want to consider that sweeping generalisations are of no use (and certainly do not give an accurate picture of those outside of christianity).

Seems to me you also paint with a pretty broad brush. That being said, I find generalizations to be quite useful in understanding general characteristics of people and groups. We all generalize because generalizations do have value. Problem is, when the generalization is applied to the INDIVIDUAL there is a breakdown. Personal example, I am Mexican. There is no doubt that in the minds of most people that fact creates a certain image in the minds of most people (short, dark, lazy, illiterate, Catholic, incurable womanizer, taco-eating loser to name a few ideas I have encountered).

I am none of the above with the possible exception of being short and illiterate (smile).

I think most of us here have been abused and victimized by the organization of the Watchtower any by individuals within (and probably without) that organization. I would, respectfully, ask that we all patiently allow others the same right to free speech that you demand.

On a personal note, I do enjoy your posts. I hope that you will allow me to believe as I wish to believe and that we engage (as a group) in dialog, not bitterness and shunning. I sincerely hope I have not misrepresented any of your thoughts here.

Peace. But, if that is not possible, I am an old man now. I have learned to accept the fact that not everyone will like me or agree with me although I always hope for the best.

Respectfully,

Marcos

27

WBTS/Demons/Ketchup Song. Any References?

by SpannerintheWorks in

jw
friends

.

does anybody have any wbts literature references where it is stated that the "ketchup song" contains "demonic influences".. an ex-jw friend of mine has heard that the wbts has stated this, and it would be very useful it have it confirmed.. thanks.. .

spanner

Marcos

Country Girl, you said:

That's about the dumbest song I've heard since "I've Got a Brand New Pair Of Roller Skates"

Ummm, how 'bout "Gramma Just Got Runned Over By A Reindeer"?

Merry Christmas!

Marcos

27

WBTS/Demons/Ketchup Song. Any References?

by SpannerintheWorks in

jw
friends

.

does anybody have any wbts literature references where it is stated that the "ketchup song" contains "demonic influences".. an ex-jw friend of mine has heard that the wbts has stated this, and it would be very useful it have it confirmed.. thanks.. .

spanner

Marcos

Hey all. Hey Matty. Wouldn't this part of the quote in your post make us all want to go back?

take care because satan is using every means to leave jehovahs organisation!

with love abigail xxx

Well, by all means, let him go! Or is it just the apostates who are TRYING to leave? All in all the whole quote really shows how eager most people are to believe ghost storys and various bs.

Don't know about the "Ketchup" song except for a couple of comments. The girl group is known as "Las Ketchup". They are (I believe Spanish). Many countries use non-sensical English words or phrases for everything from shopping bags to coffee creamer (Japanese coffee creamer called "Creap"), to name for singing groups.

Everyone hates Americans (they are like the French, it is ok to hate them because EVERYONE does) but English is IN! It is the language of cool in most countries.

The Ketchup song is called, here, Aserej. The version of the song we hear here in Latin America is in Spanish. The refrain is not Spanish. Some say it is baby-talk, some say it is a made-up language the girls in the band use. Some say it is Galician (another language spoken by an ethnic group in Spain). As far as I can tell no one really knows.

Could be a Satanic refrain. I sort of doubt it. But, who knows? Could be. I'd love to know. But the biggest problem is, how do I get the damn song out of my head??

Marcos

88

The coming "disassociations"

by Elsewhere in

jw
friends

i have seen several threads about how the elders are going to be going around asking people if they still consider themselves to be jehovah's witnesses.

this will undoubtedly result in multiple da announcements in the coming months.

i'm curious how the average jw will perceive this and respond to it.

Marcos

Hey, JT or anyone, I have a "left-field" sort of question.

All of my witness time was put in in the US and I stopped attending a couple of decades ago. As far as I know no one (except the lurking elders here) know where I am, much less that I live in Mexico.

However, I have identified myself to the local JWs as a former witness and bethelite (in Brooklyn). As I stated before, I do not recognize them as having ANY authority over me at all. But, honestly, the publishers coming to my door irritates me. As I said before, nice people but thoroughly deceived.

My question is this. Do you think, knowing that I was a JW (I have never given them my name), that I can expect a visit? It would be very entertaining for me. I have no family left to lose. No "friends" in the org. Just would like to know if anyone has a clue as to what they would like to do with someone like me.

Marcos

40

Thread for support of diet and exercise...tips

by LyinEyes in

last nite in chat i had a good time talking about different weight loss strategies and exercise.

i am trying to get myself in shape ,start walking and my diet is in need of a major overhaul.

what do you think is the best way to get in shape?

Marcos

"So anyone eles want to share their fitness routines, do you run , walk, lift weights? What gets you motivated?"

My idea has usually generated a lot of resistance from the women I have suggested it to but, going to a body-building gym and doing a workout with weights combined with a reasonable diet consisting of 5 - 6 small meals a day works wonders. I lost about 100# this way and now don't worry too much if I go up again because it is all re-doable.

It is extremely unlikely that you will look like a female Arnold Schwartznegger unless that is your goal and it is very difficult to do that even for a guy. It is very scientific. And, best of all, it is probably the most economical way (in terms of time and money) to get into decent shape and maintain the shape that YOU want.

But, like any program, it must be consistant and your trainer needs to know what he/she is doing.
Hope this helps.

Marcos

Edited by - marcos on 15 December 2002 19:53:18

21

Fed Up!

by gilwarrior in

right now i am so mad!

i am in total road rage mode.

the reason is my job.

Marcos

BTW, I know of a job that you might be interested in pursuing that is easy, fun (it was for me, sort of), and doesn't require a college degree. It pays very well.

Nope, not Amway. It is in the construction trades but many independent contractors do it. It is semi-skilled but doesn't take long to get the hang of it (like a week to 2 weeks). I won't bore you with it if you don't really care but if you want me to fill you in, just e-mail me.

Not trying to play a guessing game just don't want to go into a long discussion.

Marcos

21

Fed Up!

by gilwarrior in

right now i am so mad!

i am in total road rage mode.

the reason is my job.

Marcos

Hi again Gil,

I also just sent you an e-mail. Sort of a "kindred spirit" type of thing.

I'd like to see you feel better.

Marcos

25

Quotes or Sayings About Lies and Lying

by blondie in

jw
friends

"never chase a lie.

let it alone, and it will run itself to death.".

- lyman beecher

Marcos

"Never tell the truth when a lie will do."

Iwasyoungonce, you didn't attribute this quote. Is it your own or is it from a recent Watchtower?

Marcos

17

Being a JW has made me bitter

by mamashel in

over the last year after leaving the organization, i have done much research and read many books on the topic of jw's.

i have found peace in the fact that i truely believe that it is a false religion and that i want nothing to do with it ever again.

my problem is that i have been through, like most of you alot of emotions such as fear, anger, stupidity, (that i could allow myself to get involved so deeply in something), and many other feelings too.

Marcos

I was very bitter for a long time and I just sort of drifted away like smoke.

Truthfully, I still get tense and angry when I see witnesses who come to my door. There is really no reason for me to feel that way. I do not recognize them as having any authority over me whatsoever. I, and my family and several very good friends were all treated horribly by various congregation members and elders.

Back to the bitterness. When they come to the door I have to remind myself that these people are basically innocent (as far as it relates to me) and many are nice people. I suppose I should witness to them but I just can't summon up the charity and self-control I would need to even talk to them. It is a real effort to be civil.

I know little about the law, but would it be possible, if you did not want any visits and had told them to leave you alone, to invoke one of the laws concerning stalking? Their obsession with getting in the last word seems to me to fit the definition of stalking. It does seem to me that they have the very immature attitude of I dumped him (or her), he didnt dump me!

Following are just a couple of stories of things I have done that have allowed me to get in the last word. Perhaps immature, but, what the hey, Im only 52. Still time to grow up.

In almost 30 years I have only gone to a KH one time. That was to get a copy of the CD when it first came out. At that time, I don't think they had a policy of not selling things to "outsiders". I get the impression they do now or soon will. Anyway, you should have seen the look on the faces of several people when I waited patiently for a meeting to be over and went inside to get the CD. I could tell they didn't want to sell it to me and were dying to know who I was and where did I come from and why was I interested in that information and not a Bible study.

I had never been to that cong. before.

I did have one middle-aged sister get a little snippy with me. I told her to tell everyone to stay away from me and to leave me alone. I told them I was an ex-bethelite. That is always a sure conversation stopper. This is Mexico and they are really awed by the Society so they are afraid to get into a discussion with me. Fine by me. But they keep coming.

Had what I think was a CO come by one day with 2 other guys. They have a disturbing habit of hiding behind the gate when they ring so you don't know who or how many are really there. I told the guy, "No, I'm not interested, thank you." He asked if he could know why. Big mistake on his part. I said, "Because the WT is a false prophet and I am told in the Bible not to fear a false prophet and I don't wish to have anything to do with you all. Please spread the word." At that point the 2 other guys came out from behind the gate and looked at me as if I had just taken a baseball bat to the CO. It was precious. However, this is interesting; they then all shook my hand (a very Mexican reaction) smiled at me and left.

No more visits so far. In fairness, most people who ring your bell here will "hide" behind the gate. I really hate that and think it is a bad habit. With the number of abductions here for ransom, I approach the gate very cautiously.