i approach this thread with some trepidation.
i understand that most of us here have had a bad to terrible experience with an organization that is highly judgmental and vengeful in its approach to its members.
so i post this with the utmost respect toward all who wish to read it.
Animal,
You were attacked? For telling your story? I'll have to re-check the thread.
You're probably right. Some just don't get it. It also could be that some don't really READ the posts. It has often happend to me in writing and speaking that sometimes people fixate on some word that is, for them, a triggering device and just explode without getting the sense of what is being said.
Patience.
Marcos
i approach this thread with some trepidation.
i understand that most of us here have had a bad to terrible experience with an organization that is highly judgmental and vengeful in its approach to its members.
so i post this with the utmost respect toward all who wish to read it.
Yes, Banshee, I basically agree with you. Many people in every walk of life are prone to judge others harshly.
I do use the word judge when I teach. I always try to make the distinction between judging in the sense of condemning and judging in the sense of discerning. My understanding of the definition of "krino" is that it covers both types of judging. My take on it is that judging to condemn is pretty much reserved to God and even to secular authorities (by His permission). But that using judgment in the form of discernment is just common sense.
Of course, many have said that "common sense" is not so common.
We probably all judge everyone and everything as we observe the world. It is not always right or necessary to pronounce our judgments (read: discernments). Some of the most "non-judgmental" people I have met are pretty judgmental when something or someone violates their particular definition of what if "right".
I don't mind the fact that many people disagree with me on many topics. I do like to hear reasoning as to why things are different than the way I perceive them. I have been swayed to change my beliefs on many matters by well-reasoned arguments. But, I'm hardheaded. I don't learn well by having someone's opinion forced on me by screaming or belittling myself or some other participant in a discussion.
Case in point: I HATE ALL CAPS! Additionally, some of the people who come onto this (and other) board(s) sometimes try to make a point but their reasoning is so obscured by poor spelling, lack of punctuation and lack of paragraphs that it is hard to follow.
It is judgmental but such things cause me to discount to some degree what is being said.
Thanks again for responding.
Marcos
i approach this thread with some trepidation.
i understand that most of us here have had a bad to terrible experience with an organization that is highly judgmental and vengeful in its approach to its members.
so i post this with the utmost respect toward all who wish to read it.
Animal,
Thanks for your comments. I neglected to mention something in my last post to you. I very much enjoyed reading your post yesterday regarding your experiences. Glad things have worked out well.
Marcos
i approach this thread with some trepidation.
i understand that most of us here have had a bad to terrible experience with an organization that is highly judgmental and vengeful in its approach to its members.
so i post this with the utmost respect toward all who wish to read it.
True. That touches on my point. Seems like we should be able to have civil discussions without the bitter attacks that occur (no one has yet attacked me bitterly). I do enjoy the humor, however.
I feel judging for ourselves and being "judgemental" are two different things.
Marcos
seems like tension is high right now, and i really hate tension, especially when i get right in the middle of it...........lol..... i swear i am not a troublemaker ,,, for the most part.... i enjoy this board because i have alot of good friends here, i have learned alot and this place will always have a special place in my heart because of that.. i like moe and randoms board because they are my friends and i like it there too.. i even lurk at jwo because i am nosey and i am interesting in certain ones and what is going on in their world.
i worry,,,,,,,,,,, because i do care too much of what people think of me,,,,,,,,,, that by going to these other boards that i will be lable as disgruntled.
i am not in anyway.........i go to different boards because i have friends that go there.
The thought of anyone caring about me going to another board never even crossed my mind!
This is not the Kingdom Hall, after all. Most of us here are here because we didn't like being told what to do. I have never seen any indication by Simon (see above) that it should make any difference.
Anyway, I still like you, LyinEyes!
Marcos
i approach this thread with some trepidation.
i understand that most of us here have had a bad to terrible experience with an organization that is highly judgmental and vengeful in its approach to its members.
so i post this with the utmost respect toward all who wish to read it.
I approach this thread with some trepidation. I understand that most of us here have had a bad to terrible experience with an organization that is highly judgmental and vengeful in its approach to its members. So I post this with the utmost respect toward all who wish to read it.
However, I often see here what appears to be a very partial and one-sided application of Matthew 7: 1 5; Judge not, that you be not judged.
While I believe that we are positively commanded to judge others, I also believe that such judging has more to do with those who are Christian. I particularly agree with something I read on one of the sites I visited (http://www.surefoundation.org/JudgeNot.htm):
But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner - not even to eat with such a person. For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? But those who are outside God judges . Therefore put away from yourselves the evil person. Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unrighteous, and not before the saints? Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life? If then you have judgments concerning things pertaining to this life, do you appoint those who are least esteemed by the church to judge? I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you, not even one, who will be able to judge between his brethren?
- 1 Corinthians 5:11-6:5
Also, another quote from ( http://www.fundamentalbiblechurch.org/Tracts/fbcjudge.htm ):
Christians should guard against the tendency of the flesh to assume a critical and censorious attitude toward those who do not share our opinions about other matters than those which have to do with Bible doctrine and moral conduct. Rather than "pick to pieces" our brethren in Christ, it is our privilege and duty to do everything we can to encourage their spiritual edification. We ought to love and pray for one another and consider ourselves lest we be tempted. Galatians 6:1.
Also, the definition of the Greek word krino: ( http://www.fundamentalbiblechurch.org/Tracts/fbcjudge.htm )
The New Testament Greek word that is most often translated "judge" or "judgment" is "krino." On the one hand, it means to distinguish, to decide, to determine, to conclude, to try, to think and to call in question . That is what God wants His children to do as to whether preachers, teachers and their teachings are true or false to His Word. The Apostle Paul writes: "And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; that ye may approve things that are excellent" (Philippians 1:9-10). A wrong idea of love and lack of knowledge and judgment causes God's people often to approve things that are anything but excellent in God's sight. The epistle to the Hebrews tells us that mature believers, that is, those who are of "full age, " are ". .. those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil " (see Hebrews 5:11-14).
On the other hand, the Greek word "krino"-judge or judgment-means to condemn, to sentence and to punish. This is God's prerogative for He has said, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay, saith the Lord" (Romans 12:19).
In my experience life is a series of judgement calls. We all have to (and do) judge things and people every day. To use good judgement is critical to our way of life. Without it, we end up being weak willed and of no practical value to anyone, particularly to our children.
I believe we need to teach these skills to our kids so that they will have a valid platform from which to make good decisions in the future without being judgemental toward others who dont view things the same way.
Based upon our shared experiences we should be very hesitant to try to force our ideas on others. But, we should always be ready to give an answer to anyone who questions our beliefs.
My life has become so much more joyful since I made the decision not to offer my opinions unless invited to do so. I have had some of my best conversations since I have begun to really listen to what another individual has to say.
Since I am a Christian (and fundamental in my views) I have been asked more questions and listened to by more people who actually see my life and want to know who I am and WHY?
What are your thoughts on judging (in the sense of distinguishing, deciding, determining, concluding, trying, thinking and calling into question)? Does the distinction between that and the other definition of krino make sense to you? Marcos
u apostates.... fallen ones..... spiritually weak ones.....whatever u want to call u r selfs make me sick... all u display is hate.
quit u r pathetic crusade to destroy the wts.
u r childish " if i cant have it... no one can" attitude.. apostate 1) " once at a meeting a talk was given and the elder said we should pray for the spiritually weak ones in the cong!!!!!!..
This doesn't mean we'll put up with people playing games though!
Amen!
Marcos
my most painful confession
note to simon: i will use some expletives, but i hope that they will be retained as this is intended to be an otherwise civil and thoughtful post to all my fellow ex-jws.
please read on, as this is most painful.
I've only been here for a little while. But, I have found your posts to be kind and thoughtful.
I hope for your speedy recovery and that we will see you here again very soon!
Ciao,
Marcos
u apostates.... fallen ones..... spiritually weak ones.....whatever u want to call u r selfs make me sick... all u display is hate.
quit u r pathetic crusade to destroy the wts.
u r childish " if i cant have it... no one can" attitude.. apostate 1) " once at a meeting a talk was given and the elder said we should pray for the spiritually weak ones in the cong!!!!!!..
Thanks Simon!
Just a casual viewing of Ging / Elhoim's posts show the grammatical similarity. Elsewhere's post more or less confirms it. However, is it possible that it might be 2 different (illiterate) posters using the same machine? I'm still not up on the occult workings of computers. I'm a third world kinda guy. Even FIRE (shudder) still scares me!
Anyway, even though it looks like Ging/Elhoim will not be posting further, he can still look.
Isn't it wonderful that drip by drip we are gaining members now that the "official" WT board has closed down? I don not mean to be sarcastic here. I think that the kind response of many of the posters here is a good thing and that many really negative and nasty people from the WT will be shamed and made to change their attitudes by such a response.
I think that the stronger responses were pretty much all well thought out and funny. It is good for new ones to get a dose of both sides of the "real world".
Personally, I'm with Farkel
"Bite me!"Marcos
i have seen a lot about the wt teaching on being careful about one's associates.. i feel that i am discerning enough to know what a good or a bad associate for me would be.
i try to be kind to all and keep my judgements fo myself (yes, i judge as to with whom i will associate or whether or not what someone does is something i wish to participate in or be associated with.).
i teach my son to be selective as to his associates.
I have seen a lot about the WT teaching on being careful about one's associates.
I feel that I am discerning enough to know what a good or a bad associate for me would be. I try to be kind to all and keep my judgements fo myself (yes, I judge as to with whom I will associate or whether or not what someone does is something I wish to participate in or be associated with.)
I teach my son to be selective as to his associates. I do believe that our associates define us, at least in the eyes of others. And I believe that "bad associations can spoil useful habits." Who was it that said, "Tell me who your friends are and I'll tell you what you are"?
What do you think? Do you limit yourself as to your associates?
Marcos
