Posts by scotsman

65

Could it happen here?

by BurnTheShips in

jw
friends

this thread, and others like it, got me thinking that, if this board is representative of society, there is definitely an anti-theist wind blowing in western nations, much more so in europe than here in the united states.

could it happen here as it happened there?.

from edward j. derwinski "religious persecution in the soviet union - transcript".

scotsman

Hillary

For example, last night I tuned into a US TV evangelist show and caught a snow-haired preacher summing up all he knew about evolution in two sentences and calling those who believe in evolution as 'stupid infidels'. Such talk would not even reach the screens in the UK, not through banning, but with a knowledge that their would not be an audeince for such tripe.

It may not reach the terrestrial channels but the majority here have gone cable/satellite and we now have the entertaining delight's of TV evangelism in the UK. Benny Hinn is my favourite, so shameless!

The secular turn of Western Europe could be just a short interlude before a return to what appears to be the religious default mode. I hope not but I'm not foolish enough to think the state we find ourselves in is guaranteed to continue.

64

Long last letter to dad...please comment-not mailed yet

by dawg in

jw
friends

dad, .

i doubt youll even read this letter since it comes from your son, a son youve abandoned over your religious views, but i wanted to write you one final letter to see if theres any hope that you can come to your senses as far as this religion goes and we can renew our relationship.

im doing this because i care for you and mom deeply and feel very much distressed that you two refuse to see anyones opinion as being factual other than your own when it concerns the jw religion.

scotsman

Personally I would send the letter to him (keeping a copy), if it is returned unopened, or you get no reply, I would then send it to his local newspaper, after all, what have you got to lose at that point?
I'd also send a copy to my local newspapers EDITORIAL PAGE for the publics viewing of what this cult does to and with its children.

This would be a major statement about Jehovah's Witnesses but it would show complete disregard for your dad. If your aim is to irrepairably hurt him, fine, but if you do love him and want him in your life it's a horrific approach. I hate disfellowsipping and shunning and the nameing and shaming that Witnesses engage in and this smacks of an equivalent.

Dawg, I really empathise with your situation but don't think sending such an accusatory letter will make your dad change or make you feel any better. Getting it sent back will frustrate you and continue the cycle. I'm pretty surprised at the vengeful nature of the advice on here. Maybe I'm a sap, but it works well for me.

64

Long last letter to dad...please comment-not mailed yet

by dawg in

jw
friends

dad, .

i doubt youll even read this letter since it comes from your son, a son youve abandoned over your religious views, but i wanted to write you one final letter to see if theres any hope that you can come to your senses as far as this religion goes and we can renew our relationship.

im doing this because i care for you and mom deeply and feel very much distressed that you two refuse to see anyones opinion as being factual other than your own when it concerns the jw religion.

scotsman

Intense indeed. But he's returned all your other letters unopened? send him a post card, tell him that you love him and that your door will always be open to him, no conditions or accusations. If it's your last word to him make it simple and positive. You're the better man.

63

3 a.m. - my wife is in tears! What do I do?

by The Scotsman in

jw
friends

well my situation has developed a bit, any advice appreciated.. their has been a gradual building up of pressure ever since i stood down as an elder about 6 months ago.. i have been telling my wife about my doubts but have continued to attend "some" meetings.. as time has progressed i have become more open with my criticism of the org.. i mentioned the un scandal, molestation trials, false prophecy ect etc.. interestingly she does not deny these facts and yet still wants to continue as a jw.. i told her that god is not happy with people knowingly being part of a false prophet (deut 18 - etc) - starting to lay the groundwork for my exit.. she appreciates the difficult situation doubters are in - they cannot openly express their feelings for fear of jcs.. anyway, a few weeks ago we moved house which meant changing congregation.. but i felt it would be best if i did not attend meetings " at all" at the new cong so my fade could be easier.. but i could not have predicted my wifes response - when i told her it was an explosion of emotion, i mean real heartbreaker stuff.. she seems depressed at the prospect, perhaps the reality is finally hitting home.. last night, about 3a.m.

i noticed that she was not in bed.

i went downstairs and she was sobbing away to herself.. "i can't go to that hall myself!

scotsman

Yup, it's a deeply unpleasant position, but going would draw out that unpleasantness over a prolonged period, and do worse to your wife's moral/esteem.

85

Shropshire Star news editor examines issues behind death of JW Emma Gough

by AndersonsInfo in

shropshire starapril 9, 2008. why would loving faith allow death?.

features news editor neil thomas examines the issues behind the tragic death of new mum emma gough.. words written by heaven knows who and attributed to moses have brought about the apparently needless death of a young shropshire mother, and blighted many other lives, more than 3,000 years later.. far-fetched, possibly.

yet, how else are we to interpret the death of emma gough?.

scotsman

All this debating is just p*ss**g in the wind

Sam, this is JWD!

Without a doubt, a mother being there for her child is an undeniable need and the lack of a mother has serious repercussions.

I have two friends who were raised without mothers from birth (not JWs) and they are no more or less dysfunctional than the rest of us and might take issue with this statement, as would some gay male parents...

For those that are pro state intervention I wonder when you feel a child's right to a mother ceases to trump her freedom of choice. When weaned? When they start school? High school?

85

Shropshire Star news editor examines issues behind death of JW Emma Gough

by AndersonsInfo in

shropshire starapril 9, 2008. why would loving faith allow death?.

features news editor neil thomas examines the issues behind the tragic death of new mum emma gough.. words written by heaven knows who and attributed to moses have brought about the apparently needless death of a young shropshire mother, and blighted many other lives, more than 3,000 years later.. far-fetched, possibly.

yet, how else are we to interpret the death of emma gough?.

scotsman

Flipper, the alternative is state control. Preferable?

85

Shropshire Star news editor examines issues behind death of JW Emma Gough

by AndersonsInfo in

shropshire starapril 9, 2008. why would loving faith allow death?.

features news editor neil thomas examines the issues behind the tragic death of new mum emma gough.. words written by heaven knows who and attributed to moses have brought about the apparently needless death of a young shropshire mother, and blighted many other lives, more than 3,000 years later.. far-fetched, possibly.

yet, how else are we to interpret the death of emma gough?.

scotsman

Should we be able to drop our kids at the social work department and ask them to take care of them indefinitely as we just don't fancy it any more?

lol, that's exactly what we can do, and have been able to do in the West for oo, 500 years plus.

85

Shropshire Star news editor examines issues behind death of JW Emma Gough

by AndersonsInfo in

shropshire starapril 9, 2008. why would loving faith allow death?.

features news editor neil thomas examines the issues behind the tragic death of new mum emma gough.. words written by heaven knows who and attributed to moses have brought about the apparently needless death of a young shropshire mother, and blighted many other lives, more than 3,000 years later.. far-fetched, possibly.

yet, how else are we to interpret the death of emma gough?.

scotsman

involve a mother dying and leaving children behind,

Once more, that's an emotive reason for intervention, but not an ethical reason... where is this "right to your birth mother" inscribed?

(I'm on to a nice cuppa tea now!)

85

Shropshire Star news editor examines issues behind death of JW Emma Gough

by AndersonsInfo in

shropshire starapril 9, 2008. why would loving faith allow death?.

features news editor neil thomas examines the issues behind the tragic death of new mum emma gough.. words written by heaven knows who and attributed to moses have brought about the apparently needless death of a young shropshire mother, and blighted many other lives, more than 3,000 years later.. far-fetched, possibly.

yet, how else are we to interpret the death of emma gough?.

scotsman

Gadget

a lifetimes worth of conditioning

That phrase can be applied to so many repellant aspects of human society that I find it hard to apply to the blood doctrine as if it makes the Witnesses exceptional. My father made an informed choice about whether or not to accept blood and he knew the risks. He refused and died. Whether or not a blood transfusion would have increased his life expectancy I greatly doubt, but I would rather he had made the decision he did than have the law force him otherwise. He was an intelligent adult who had converted over the age of 30, and despite 30 years of brainwashing was a sentient individual. His beliefes lead him to make what some may percieve as an irrational choice, but hey, the irrationality of humans is what results in love, delight and culture and i'm all for it.

My niece also required a blood transfusion when only a days old and despite her parents refusal, it was administered by the doctors without fuss or court and with a lot of respect for her parents position. I'm glad the law overruled her parents but if she chooses to refuse blood at 16+ (when it's highly likely that she'll need another operation) to run the risk of losing her life through the want of a blood transfusion then I respect her right to do so, as much as it would grieve me to lose her.

Hope all that makes sense, I've just knocked back a bottle of Veuve Cliquot (6year anniversary with the BF!).

85

Shropshire Star news editor examines issues behind death of JW Emma Gough

by AndersonsInfo in

shropshire starapril 9, 2008. why would loving faith allow death?.

features news editor neil thomas examines the issues behind the tragic death of new mum emma gough.. words written by heaven knows who and attributed to moses have brought about the apparently needless death of a young shropshire mother, and blighted many other lives, more than 3,000 years later.. far-fetched, possibly.

yet, how else are we to interpret the death of emma gough?.

scotsman

lol

I agree with what you say on an emotional level, but not on an ethical one. We're discuss the individual's right to control over their own body and in that contect the abortion question is relevant. And the "right to a mother" isn't a UNESCO article although you could possibly say it is covered in article 3 (Best interests of child). Not allowing the choice to refuse specific medical treatment because you can't comprehend the mindset and because of the hope & optimism in a wedding photo are not sound legal grounds, but they might be champagne grounds!

Christopher Hitchens is a beautiful writer but I wouldn't want to live in his world. Removing religion from the equation wouldn't automatically result in a peachy world as the impetus to control and dominate is intrinsic to humanity and science an alternative tool to be used to that end instead of religion.

I'm with John Gray on Hitchens, Dawkins and Dennet.http://books.guardian.co.uk/departments/politicsphilosophyandsociety/story/0,,2265446,00.html