Could it happen here?

by BurnTheShips 65 Replies latest jw friends

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips

    This thread, and others like it, got me thinking that, if this board is representative of society, there is definitely an anti-theist wind blowing in Western nations, much more so in Europe than here in the United States. Could it happen here as it happened there?

    From Edward J. Derwinski "Religious persecution in the Soviet Union - transcript". US Department of State Bulletin. Sept 1986

    The Soviet regime regards religionas a hostile ideology and is openly committed to the creation of an atheist society. Its attitude was summed up by a Byelorussian party official who wrote a 1984 article in Kommunist Belorussii that "religion in our country is the only legal refuge alien to socialism in ideology and morals." How Soviet authorities understand freedom of conscience is revealed in Soviet constitutional provisions, legislation, administrative regulations, and extralegal pressures applied against believers........

    Whenever possible, the council places the clergy in the position of acting against their direct responsibilities by forcing them to implement policies designed to weaken and in time destroy religion: by closing churches "voluntarily," keeping silent when believers are harassed, and ignoring violations of law by the authorities. In general, the regime aims at compromising the integrity of clergy and religious institutions and at rendering organized religion and individual believers incapable of defending their interests..............

    Soviet law and penal practices singleout religious activists for especially harsh treatment. Those convicted under the criminal code for "religious crimes" are sentenced to strict regime labor camps and designated--together with political activists--as "especially dangerous state criminals," a category that disqualifies them from amnesties or leniency. Indeed, the provisions of amnesties promulgated in recent years demonstrate that authorities regard religious activism (such as organizing religious classes for children or circulating a petition) as a more serious crime than assault, robbery, or rape. Even if convicted for lesser crimes, believers rarely qualify for early release or parole because, as "prisoners of conscience," they usually refuse to provide the required expression of remorse or admission of guilt. Believers who are incarcerated in psychiatric hospitals face an especially agonizing choice, since they are often promised immediate release if they renounce their belief in God. Others face deprivation of their parental rights under provisions of the Soviet Family Code that obligates parents to raise their children as "worthy members of socialist society."...........

    This part sounds a lot like disrespect and intolerance:

    In addition to incarceration, a variety of social pressures are used against believers, including public "exposure" by atheist activists, vilification in the Soviet media, exclusion from high education, and discrimination in professional advancement. Young people, especially, are subjected to heavy pressures and face life as second-class citizens if they become known as practicing believers.

    From Wikipedia:

    The Soviet Union was the first state to have as an ideological objective the elimination of religion. Toward that end, the Communist regime confiscated church property, ridiculed religion, harassed believers, and propagated atheism in the schools. Actions toward particular religions, however, were determined by State interests, and most organized religions were never outlawed. Some actions against Orthodox priests and believers along with execution included torture being sent to prison camps, labour camps or mental hospitals. [4] [5] Many Orthodox (along with peoples of other faiths) were also subjected to psychological punishment or torture and mind control experimentation in order to force them give up their religious convictions (see Pitesti prison ). [6] [7]

    Practising Orthodox Christians were restricted from prominent careers and membership in communist organizations (the party, the Komsomol). Anti-religious propaganda was openly sponsored and encouraged by the government, which the Church was not given an opportunity to publicly respond to. The government youth organization, the Komsomol, encouraged its members to vandalize Orthodox Churches and harass worshippers. Seminaries were closed down, and the church was restricted from using the press.

    and

    An intense ideological anti-Christian and anti-religious campaign was carried out throughout the history of the Soviet Union. An extensive education and propaganda campaign was undertaken to convince people, especially the children and youth, not to become believers. The role of the Christian religion and the Church was painted in black colors in school textbooks. For instance, much emphasis was placed on the role of the Church in such historical horror stories as the Inquisition, persecution of Galileo, Giordano Bruno, and other heretical scientists, and the Crusades. School students were encouraged to taunt and use peer pressure against classmates wearing crosses or otherwise professing their faith. In the 1920s there were many "anti-God" publications and social clubs sponsored by the government, most notably the scathingly satirical "Godless at the Workbench" ("Bezbozhnik u Stanka" in Russian). Later on, these disappeared because a new generation has grown up essentially atheist. [citation needed]

    A "scientific" perspective was used to attack religion extensively. The Church was portrayed as obscurantist and opposed to the findings of science. Much was made of alleged Christian belief in the literal Creation account in the book of Genesis which the pro-Darwinian textbooks ridiculed. [citation needed] As part of the anti-foreign and anti-capitalist propaganda, an effort was made, especially in the 1920s and 1930s, to imprint in the minds of the people an image of the West as dominated by the anti-scientific ignorance of the Church, as opposed to the scientifically "progressive" atheist Soviet state. [citation needed]

    Could it happen here?

    Burn

  • Kinjiro
    Kinjiro

    I think this whole 'anti-theist' as you call it has been in the making for many many years... in the making by organized religions themselves...

    If one were to use a biblical phrase 'by their fruits you shall know them..' there it is... all the arguments presented by the soviet example you present are based on facts... undeniable historical facts...

    The darkest chapters of modern human history are written by organized religions... that put their faith upon translation and interpretation of very old books of whom no one has the originals. (not only christians but other religions also)

    I always rememeber an example of a trial the Inquisition would bring upon a so called 'witch'...they would tie her up and put her into a sack which was also tied around and then thrown into a river... if se drowned, she was innocent and went straight to heaven... on the other hand, if by any luck she survived, she would be burned at the stake 'cause only a witch could escape the sack and ties using satan's power...

    I, for one, am in favor of this so called anti-theist ( or anti - theos ) line of thinking... cause the opposite form of thinking and actually believing these nefarious acts are and were condonned by the so called god, give me the creeps!

  • DoomVoyager
    DoomVoyager

    I doubt it will. But I can always hope.

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    The darkest chapters of modern human history are written by organized religions... that put their faith upon translation and interpretation of very old books of whom no one has the originals. (not only christians but other religions also)

    Isn't ironic that this is posted on a thread about a very dark chapter? One perpetrated by an organized areligious ideology?

    Burn

  • DoomVoyager
    DoomVoyager

    *sigh*

    It's been done to death.

    The Inquisition, the witch trials, the Crusades, all that good stuff was done in the name of God.

    Communist atrocities were not commited "in the name of atheism". They were commited at the behest of totalitarian dictators. African dictators have a track record just as bad, without having explicitly banned religion.

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    I doubt it will. But I can always hope.

    Surely you must jest. At least I hope so.

    *sigh*

    It's been done to death.

    The Inquisition, the witch trials, the Crusades, all that good stuff was done in the name of God.

    Communist atrocities were not commited "in the name of atheism". They were commited at the behest of totalitarian dictators. African dictators have a track record just as bad, without having explicitly banned religion.

    Merely to turn your argument, the Inquisition, the witch trials, the Crusades, all that good stuff was at the behest of evil, power hungry, men. But I will leave that alone for now. The thread title is "Could it happen here?" To which you have responded that you hope that it does. Which, if true, would mean the brutal repression of millions of people. This would make you, in scale, a far worse criminal than the perpetrators of the atrocities you name above, none of which killed more than thousands.

    The examples I cite in the OP above were specifically done in the name atheist ideology, the express purpose being to destroy any semblance of belief, or faith, in the society. How can the coercive advancement of atheism not be done in the name of atheism in this case? Did you even read it?

  • hamilcarr
    hamilcarr
    much more so in Europe than here in the United States.

    Which countries have you visited?

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips

    Several. When I say Europe, I should probably narrow that down a bit to GB. At least from what I read on the web, antitheism seems more strident there.

    Cheers,

    Burn

  • journey-on
    journey-on

    I doubt it will happen here through any sort of forced law or restriction. America is still very much about FREEDOM, period.

    If it did happen (and that's a BIG "IF"), individually you DO NOT need religion to worship the Creator. You can worship under

    "your own vine and fig tree" so to speak.

    However.....this is my feeling.....Mankind is evolving spiritually and in the future, organized religion will fade away and a New

    Spirituality, one that is written in the heart, will be a natural part of the human spirit. Those today that are throwing away

    that spiritual connection or letting that inner temple atrophy will die off like Neanderthals and those that have maintained it

    will evolve into a higher form of Man, physically AND spiritually.

  • hamilcarr
    hamilcarr

    Still, I don't see any possible link between modern-day Europe, certainly GB, and communism. As you probably know, extreme left is dying throughout the continent, along with militant a(nti)theism. Antireligious movies like Wilders' Fitna are generally criticised by public opinion as being counterproductive and this anti-islam discourse is accompanied by an anachronistic desire for a purely christian Europe.

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