Posts by losingit

11

Crisis of Conscience and the preaching work with WT literature

by losingit in

"it is interesting to contrast the deliberate elimination of prayers andsongs at witness meetings in mexico with the action of the watchtower society in the united states, where they were willing to fightcase after case all the way up to the supreme court of the countryrather than give up certain practices, such as offering literature fromdoor to door without a license and without having to register withthe police, the right to use sound cars, distribute literature on streetcorners, and many other such practices which are covered byconstitutional rights.

the organization did not want to relinquish anyof these things.

it fought to hold on to them, even though theseparticular practices are certainly not things that were done by earlychristians in the first century and hence cannot be counted as amongprimary christian practices.".

losingit

Yes, it's a good business. They tout these numbers (highest circulation of magazines in the world) as proof that Jehovah is with the organization. At a recent meeting I remember hearing this. But I wonder-- do they make the most $$$ from having the highest circulation? In other words, what do they gain from having the highest circulation?

11

Crisis of Conscience and the preaching work with WT literature

by losingit in

"it is interesting to contrast the deliberate elimination of prayers andsongs at witness meetings in mexico with the action of the watchtower society in the united states, where they were willing to fightcase after case all the way up to the supreme court of the countryrather than give up certain practices, such as offering literature fromdoor to door without a license and without having to register withthe police, the right to use sound cars, distribute literature on streetcorners, and many other such practices which are covered byconstitutional rights.

the organization did not want to relinquish anyof these things.

it fought to hold on to them, even though theseparticular practices are certainly not things that were done by earlychristians in the first century and hence cannot be counted as amongprimary christian practices.".

losingit

"It is interesting to contrast the deliberate elimination of prayers and songs at Witness meetings in Mexico with the action of the Watch Tower Society in the United States, where they were willing to fight case after case all the way up to the Supreme Court of the country rather than give up certain practices, such as offering literature from door to door without a license and without having to register with the police, the right to use sound cars, distribute literature on street corners, and many other such practices which are covered by Constitutional rights. The organization did not want to relinquish any of these things. It fought to hold on to them, even though these particular practices are certainly not things that were done by early Christians in the first century and hence cannot be counted as among primary Christian practices."

So the preaching work, done primarily through the distribution of literature, cannot be counted as among primary Christian practices. YET, it is so heavily emphasized at the meetings, especially the Kingdom Ministry meeting. Also, anyone baptized as a JW is considered an active PUBLISHER. Publisher of the good news? Publisher of WT?

It always bothered me, this push to get magazines in people's hands. I used to HATE seeing pioneer sisters out in service, not say a word about the Bible, but as long as they placed a magazine in the householder's hands, they were fine with their service... I just held my Bible in hand. And had great discussions with people who really wanted to talk. If they didn't, there was no need to leave any literature. In fact, I didn't care anything about it at all. Back when you had to request a certain amount of magazines, my ex-husband and I always asked for the least. I didn't want the pressure of placing magazines. But I did enjoy talking to people about the Bible.

I am definitely starting to see the WTBTS as a major publishing house. I wonder, how does WTBTS compare to other publishing houses?

48

payback? bitterly upset....

by losingit in

i don't even know where to start.. more than anything, i'd like to say that i am not a woman of vengeance.

i am very much a forgiving person.

if you say "i'm sorry," and you're genuine, i can move on from it quickly and easily.

losingit

Thank you everyone for the words of encouragement, for your understanding, and for the tell-it-like-it-is reality of the situation sarahsmile and lost. I needed to vent, I needed to cry. But most especially, I needed to hear from people that know my situation, even if they don't know the details. I have already read some of the links. I am reading "Crisis of Conscience." Everyday I am learning more about TTATT. The therapist is also on my calendar.

48

payback? bitterly upset....

by losingit in

i don't even know where to start.. more than anything, i'd like to say that i am not a woman of vengeance.

i am very much a forgiving person.

if you say "i'm sorry," and you're genuine, i can move on from it quickly and easily.

losingit

Okay sarahsmile, a bit harsh, don't you think? Clearly I'm confused. Working my way through the drama, hoping to land on some solid ground.

(Custody issues scare me, which is why I am trying to get reinstated.)

Bull How is this bull? I haven't had a conversation with one JW about how being a JW affects getting divorced in the legal system. If you want to enlighten me in how there is a difference, and how this won't affect me, then fine. But I figure that being reinstated is one less thing he could use against me. BTW, he is also disfellowshipped.

(Right now, they spend the majority of their time with me. )

That makes you the primary care giver it gives you more power in court. That's probably true. And I hope that is the case.

(Funny, I always thought he was such an excellent father. )

(He can't bother to even call to say goodnight now.)

(It depresses me. Now I see he was an excellent father because I made him so, not because he really was one.)

What ever! trying to get reinstated because of custody issues. Two different issues in the court system. Again your logic can work against you if your not careful. Tell me how so.

(Your husband and you are getting divorced and you think he should call to say good night.)

Is there something about divorce that you do not understand. Not to call ME and say good night. Call OUR CHILDREN to say goodnight. There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE. Yes, I understand what a divorce is. He's not getting divorced from his kids. He is getting divorced from ME. Being a good husband does not equal being a good father. Being a good father does not equal being a good husband. In fact, you can take away "good" from any of those two sentences, and they would still hold. The point is there is a STARK difference between the two.

(Your children are with you most of the time.)

Good that makes you the primary care giver. But if you keep going to meetings and take your children childrenon your time, JWs might become their primary religion. That's why I am trying to be balanced about it. Easing them out of it and trying to get them friends outside of the organization. There's just been too much change. I can barely handle it myself. How can they?

(You want to attend meetings just to hear what the JWS are teaching your children.)

How about living your life for you and what is in your childrens best interest. I want do that, and the best way to do that is to be cautious about it.

(You think you made your husband an excellent father.) YUP I DID.

Seek therapy. Thanks for the advice, and no clarity.

48

payback? bitterly upset....

by losingit in

i don't even know where to start.. more than anything, i'd like to say that i am not a woman of vengeance.

i am very much a forgiving person.

if you say "i'm sorry," and you're genuine, i can move on from it quickly and easily.

losingit

Thank you, everyone, for your encouraging words. I am beginning this process of being awakened. I feel like I am obsessed, reading so much from this site and jwfacts, anything that I can get my hands on.

lost -- I feel your words. But I wonder about what you wrote: "You hubby (ex?) is not your problem no more."

Because I loved this man deeply at one point in my life, got baptized as a JW as proof (basically would've done anything for him, if that's not proof then what is???) I feel like he is STILL my problem. I feel a huge sense of responsibility to share with him what I am learning about TTATT. How could I let the father of my children live this lie? Isn't that cruel? I care about this man! Shouldn't I try to get him out, too? I feel guilty because for some time during the marriage I wanted so badly to be that responsible JW man, going to all the meetings, preaching, giving talks. If I had known then what I know now! I should have let him fade. We talked about leaving at one point, but then he decided to amp things up. Perhaps we would have been happier if we had left together... Now, he is trying to get reinstated. And I can see him eagerly nodding his head when they proclaim from the platform that Armageddon is soon to come. I feel sad for him. He should know the truth.

Another marriage ruined by WTS.

48

payback? bitterly upset....

by losingit in

i don't even know where to start.. more than anything, i'd like to say that i am not a woman of vengeance.

i am very much a forgiving person.

if you say "i'm sorry," and you're genuine, i can move on from it quickly and easily.

losingit

You are going to grieve over all those wasted years, wasted hopes of course. Your husband is never going to be the man you needed him to be. The elders will continue to be oblivious.

I have finally accepted the reality that my husband is never going to be the man I needed him to be. I held on for so long, through all the turmoil. I so desperately wanted my marriage and my family. I made a vow. I wanted to stick to it. I now have no choice but to abandon it. Yes, I am grieving. However, in an odd twisted way, I see his hurtful actions as a blessing. He continues to prove who he really is, and I can continue to let go.

While I refer to him as my husband, we are separated. We are headed towards a divorce. I cannot take him back, as much as it hurts. Custody issues scare me, which is why I am trying to get reinstated. Right now, they spend the majority of their time with me. Funny, I always thought he was such an excellent father. He can't bother to even call to say goodnight now. It depresses me. Now I see he was an excellent father because I made him so, not because he really was one.

48

payback? bitterly upset....

by losingit in

i don't even know where to start.. more than anything, i'd like to say that i am not a woman of vengeance.

i am very much a forgiving person.

if you say "i'm sorry," and you're genuine, i can move on from it quickly and easily.

losingit

Don't teach your children a lie. Throw their song books away, allow them to decompress by NOT taking them to meetings while in your custody. Then slowly allow them into the real world, starting with their birthdays, participating in school, etc.

I don't know yet about birthday celebrations, but I started with "life celebrations" with my youngest. The oldest one accepted it for her younger sibling and has mentioned having one for her/himself as well. I am throwing away all the literature the next time he has them. I just cannot stand having it in my house any longer.

48

payback? bitterly upset....

by losingit in

i don't even know where to start.. more than anything, i'd like to say that i am not a woman of vengeance.

i am very much a forgiving person.

if you say "i'm sorry," and you're genuine, i can move on from it quickly and easily.

losingit

"Also, your children must be protected from this dangerous cult. If they get baptised they will have to shun you and the cycle will not be broken. As a mother you must protect your children from the Watchtower Societies lies. If they become victims of child molesters inside the organisation you may never be able to forgive yourself. Protect your children like a momma bear."

My children are my life, and that is where I am struggling... I want to respect their father, and his beliefs. But I also desperately want to protect them from the lies and the hate that they are being exposed to. I am sad when my children say "... but they're not Jehovah's Witnesses" when I ask them if they would like a play-date with one of their classmates. I tell them, "It does not matter. God loves everyone. Not just Witnesses."

I have already started to take a step back from going with them to the meetings mid-week since he does not have them. But on Sundays, I go. He is there. They are there. And I have to know what they are hearing, so that I can counter anything they are hearing. This is the ONLY reason why I am going to the District Convention. He wants to take them. And I cannot deny my children their father.

We have started reading from the Bible directly. I am placing a much greater emphasis on Jesus, and his example of humility. It's funny, I began my reading with the Gospel of Matthew and bumped into Matthew 1:18--

" During the time his mother Mary was promised in marriage to Joseph, she was found to be pregnant by holy spirit before they were united. 19 However, Joseph her husband, because he was righteous and did not want to make her a public spectacle, intended to divorce her secretly. 2 "

When I read this with my children, I emphasized how righteousness truly behaves in the face of a perceived wrong-- with love, respect, and kindness. This is NOT the way I have been treated by their father. They have seen the abuse firsthand. I want to protect them like a Momma Bear.

48

payback? bitterly upset....

by losingit in

i don't even know where to start.. more than anything, i'd like to say that i am not a woman of vengeance.

i am very much a forgiving person.

if you say "i'm sorry," and you're genuine, i can move on from it quickly and easily.

losingit

I don't even know where to start.

More than anything, I'd like to say that I am not a woman of vengeance. I am very much a forgiving person. If you say "I'm sorry," and you're genuine, I can move on from it quickly and easily. I literally forget about it. It is buried. Even if you don't say "I'm sorry," I find a way to excuse the intolerable behavior in order to forgive you. The offense is then buried, forgotten, and I move on with my life.

However, this time, I feel like I just cannot forgive. I am speaking about the elders I have dealt with over the course of my time as a Witness. I honestly do not know how I can forgive them given all that I have learned about TTAT in the past month and a half, and all that I have been put through since I came into this organization. For years, I buried my doubts, my questions, my concerns, my worries for the sake of my husband (who is a born-in, we are now getting divorced) and then for the sake of my family. I think about the fact that I was "marked" and that a record followed me from congregation to congregation-- I had no clue about that! In my mind, if Jehovah can make our scarlet sins as white as snow, then there should be no record of my mistakes. After learning about "marking" and about how elders write up a letter when you move congregations, everything seemed to make sense.... The elder who accused me of being the reason why my husband was spiritually weak in our first shepherding call, without even knowing me or the circumstances of my marriage.... Yeah, now I know where that came from... The elder who, when I approached him about marital problems in our new congregation, asked ME if I had done anything wrong... Yeah, now I know where that came from...

I openly confessed my sins to the elders because I thought this organization had the TRUTH. I confessed before men that are engineers and bankers. Wealthy men, men with a secular education-- critical thinkers, men with large homes and their own businesses. There is no way in this world that they do not know TTAT. I have read too many accounts here on this website, on jwfacts, and observed too much on my own to know that these men are NOT innocent, that they are NOT blind. And yet, there I sat before them to be judged by them. I submitted myself to their authority because I was told that God required that of me. I am bitter. I am angry.

And here's my childish idea of payback: I know where some of these men live. I know their email addresses. I want to torture them with regular letters with snippets of the society's outlandish and cruel lies. Perhaps address it to their daughters, to their sons, to their wives first. Expose the truth. Let them know that they cannot get away with turning people's lives upside down, but just through these regularly mailed snippets.

I am struggling to put my life back together... An entire belief system DEAD, my entire family GONE, all of my friends DISAPPEARED. I have to figure out if I will continue to teach to my children the outrageous lies the WTS spouts for the sake of their father, lies I believed and I taught for 9 years to my oldest. I feel guilty, I feel sad. I am overwhelmed. I don't know where to start. I don't know where I can find relief. I don't even feel right calling God Jehovah because, damn it! That's not even his name! That just breaks my heart. I remember learning God's name...

I want to blame someone. And right now, I want to blame the elders. I want payback for not helping my marriage through an enormously rocky period, for making the situation worse by not recommending marital counseling when I kept on insisting on it. I begged my husband to go with me. The elders made no comment. He doesn't listen to me. He never has. Never will. But the elders he would have listened to. Yes, I still wanted my husband despite the abuse. And the elders, well... they are clearly a bunch of incompetent men who are put in positions of authority with no real knowledge of how to counsel people, essentially hungry for power. I didn't need all the commentary on this website to notice this. I knew it all along. It's just all confirmation of the garbage I tolerated because I wanted my husband and loved my husband.

As I write this, my children are singing "Preach the Word." May God forgive me.........................

7

Jotham Article for Children...

by losingit in

i am disfellowshipped, separated from my husband, and have been "lurking" for some time.

only because i was so unbelievably lonely for being disfellowshipped, i was missing my "friends" terribly, did i even bump into this site.

i googled "lonely and disfellowshipped" and a stream of experiences appeared on the screen.

losingit

Thank you everyone for your welcome. I know I will eventually post more of my experience online. I do believe that the WTS destroyed my marriage. I also believe that they sought me, "recruited me"when I was at my most vulnerable. I was in an abusive relationship before I got dunked, and I bought into the love bombing. Now I wish I had known more about the organization-- the inside scoop, so that I could play the game. I didn't even know the inside scoop when I was *years* in. I had my doubts and discussed them privately with my husband. But I loved my husband and I would've done anything for him. And I did-- I got baptized when I really didn't want to at all. I just don't play games well-- too straightforward for most people's liking, so I'd probably still be here. I was NOT a favorite amongst any of the elders, or any of the men, now that I think of it. I thought, and continue to think too much for my own good.....