It's a strong correlation, not a pre-destination, cause and effect, as we have stated. Nurture continues to play a big part, including education and experience. You aren't locked in at conception.
Posts by DJS
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70Be nice to theists - they are victims of their genes
by cofty inidentical twin studies show there is a strong inheritable component to religiosity.
thomas bouchard studied identical and fraternal twins raised apart and tested them on religious attitudes.. the correlation for the former turned out to be 62% compared to just 2% for the latter.
his colleague.
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15
Truth behind the arrogance
by abiather inin our personal lives we have experienced that it is the inner elements (thoughts, feelings, emotions ...) that ultimately influence a relationships rather the outer elements (what we say or do)!
these inner elements are more powerful and faster than the outer elements!.
when i was with jws, it is their stubbornness and arrogance that i felt more than the outer elements.
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DJS
I don’t mean to be mean, but this OP is utter BS. I will let the Nerd Herd from Big Bang explain. From the Cooper-Hofstadter Polarization episode:
Leonard: Oh, come on. The only reason you’re the lead author is because we went alphabetically.
Sheldon: I let you think we went alphabetically to spare you the humiliation of dealing with the fact it was my idea. Not to put too fine a point on it, but I was throwing you a bone. You’re welcome.
Leonard: Excuse me, I designed the experiment that proved the hypothesis.
Sheldon: It doesn’t need proving.
Leonard: So the entire scientific community is just supposed to take your word?
Sheldon: They’re not supposed to, but they should.
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70
Be nice to theists - they are victims of their genes
by cofty inidentical twin studies show there is a strong inheritable component to religiosity.
thomas bouchard studied identical and fraternal twins raised apart and tested them on religious attitudes.. the correlation for the former turned out to be 62% compared to just 2% for the latter.
his colleague.
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DJS
James,
A pre-disposition is not a pre-destination. Believing is ultimately a choice, even for those predisposed towards religion. The science suggests a strong correlation between intelligence, education and a rational personality and secularism/atheism, just as the tendencies for those with a less rational personality, less intelligence and less education show a strong correlation towards religiosity.
Lots of empirical data support this, but a strong correlation is not a direct, cause and effect, correlation. With more education, including a more wordily, sophisticated experience, religion can wane even amongst those more typically disposed to it.
Nature/nurture is of course alive and well; no one disputes that, and Cofty's OP doesn't suggest that.
To me, the nature/nurture issue isn't what this OP is about; it is about how we evolved as a species to have a high disposition towards religiosity. That is interesting. Examining the difficulties of the species to survive is where it all starts. Maslow's hierarchy suggests that, when all of your time is spent looking for food and fending off threats (security), there isn't much time for more highly evolved pursuits. Throw in thousands of years of superstition and irrational fear of a god killing you on the spot for something you did, killing your child for something you did, making your crops fail or the rain to go away because of something you did, that you will be punished after death with fire, purgatory, eternal destruction or being re-incarnated as a worm for something you did, and Cofty's OP makes a lot more sense.
Our DNA looks like it does for a reason. And, when you consider that religion has, for thousands of years, discouraged research, rational analysis and academic achievement, dear god there is no wonder we bred a predisposition into our DNA for religiosity. For many religions and for thousands of years, only the hierarchy (hieroglyphics) and the religious elite were educated or even allowed to be educated.
Absent these external, social and cultural forces, our species should begin to evolve away from it. And it is, predictably. Thank god (I'm an atheist so this is simply a phrase to me).
Even today, one of the first things that the high control religions do when they take over is to kill the academics and the rational/secular, or attempt to silence them.
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16
Really don't feel like a JW anymore
by snare&racket init has been a good 8 years away from my area, a good 10 years + since i was regularly at meetings.
a good 12 years since i was hesitantly active.. it is a slow process but it does happen.
i now feel no connection to the belief system beyond memories.
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DJS
Snare,
Great seeing you again. Damn well spoken. My feelings and thoughts eggs-actly. I used the anger I had at the Dark Lords, my family for raising me around this cult - and finally myself for not waking up sooner - as rocket fuel to go back to school and live life to the full. The only time I looked back for 2 decades was to make slight adjustments in my rear view mirror. Like you have done. Rock on my friend. Rock on.
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70
Be nice to theists - they are victims of their genes
by cofty inidentical twin studies show there is a strong inheritable component to religiosity.
thomas bouchard studied identical and fraternal twins raised apart and tested them on religious attitudes.. the correlation for the former turned out to be 62% compared to just 2% for the latter.
his colleague.
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DJS
Kate,
A bit extreme? I didn't invent this theory. Anyway, you are right; belief in god is not necessarily a bad path. Neither is belief in Santa, the Easter Bunny, Satan or the Tooth Fairy. Lots of things work.
However, my only objective for being here is to get people to think more rationally and objectively, requiring evidence before make a stand. Anyone doing so will almost certainly get farther away from theism and superstitions.
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70
Be nice to theists - they are victims of their genes
by cofty inidentical twin studies show there is a strong inheritable component to religiosity.
thomas bouchard studied identical and fraternal twins raised apart and tested them on religious attitudes.. the correlation for the former turned out to be 62% compared to just 2% for the latter.
his colleague.
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DJS
Kate,
As I see it, it is a predictable evolutionary paradigm. For hundreds of thousands of years, the superstitious, the fraidy-cats and those with irrational fears were probably more likely to survive the real threats, such as the sabre tooth tigers and the velociraptors that were trying to eat them (OK, OK, I know saber tooth tigers and velociraptors did not co-exist with humans - geesh. Give a guy a bit of hyperbole for dramatic effect occasionally). Not to mention the no-seeums that were also trying to eat them.
As a result, their DNA was likely passed along at a higher level, the same DNA which would have pre-disposed them to religion, than the DNA of the rational brave hearts. I don't see Cofty as being mean.
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70
Be nice to theists - they are victims of their genes
by cofty inidentical twin studies show there is a strong inheritable component to religiosity.
thomas bouchard studied identical and fraternal twins raised apart and tested them on religious attitudes.. the correlation for the former turned out to be 62% compared to just 2% for the latter.
his colleague.
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DJS
Cofty,
Not surprising. Humans evolved tendencies toward religiosity, encoding it into our gene code apparently. Considering how very difficult it was to be a human for 100,000 years or more, this makes perfect sense.
We can reverse this process by becoming a more rational, evidenced based species. It will take a few generations but I believe we can evolve religiosity out of our genes and evolve a more rational code into it.
Considering the data Coded Logic provided the other day re: atheists, their children, etc., we are on our way. Live long and prosper.
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Your first time on this forum. What were your thoughts and feelings?
by stuckinarut2 inhey all,.
i was just thinking back to the first time i found this awesome forum...years before i eveni joined up and starting posting myself.. i was so encouraged and happy to see that i was not alone!
i was not the only one who was observing the org, and all of its aspects and thinking "seriously?
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DJS
Since I was out of the Borg for 2 decades before joining this site or any other like it (other than a few months on an ex-JW site around the year 2000), my experience is vastly different. My initial reaction was that I didn't belong here. I was impressed that there were a lot of knowledgeable, intelligent members. I have been surprised by the obsession with all things Borg from those who have been out more than a few years and so many who still want to try to make sense out of prophecies and scriptures. I mean, really, hasn't that ship sailed?
I also get frustrated (not that you could EVER tell) by those who make definitive, expert-llike statements about things they know little about other than the best confirmationally biased article they can find. And then become entrenched. However, I've noticed that these tendencies have greatly diminished the past few months. Either the rationals are taking over or the irrationals have found a more fertile hunting ground. That includes the conspiracy theorists, who seem to have disappeared. Yay!! Oh, and the haters. They seem to have followed Justin Timberlake's directives: "go ahead be gone with it."
And WTF is it with the new self appointed governing body members who have a direct conduit to the girl girl in the sky and special knowledge of all scripture??? WTF??? I was totally blown away by these delusional clowns.
Either way, two thumbs up.
Otherwise, I believe this site serves a great purpose. Kudos to Simon, who has yet to give me the boot. And I've probably deserved it a few times. I'm working on being a kinder gentler DJS.
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151
If you don't believe in God where do you get the strength to cope?
by Miss.Fit ini know there are some here that are going through some tough times.
some of you do not believe in god.
some are not sure.. i was told recently by a friend to pray to god for help and he would comfort me.. my first impulse is to pray.
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DJS
MissFit,
I'm glad you bumped this. And I'm happy your journey is getting easier. The more you embrace an evidentiary based belief and knowledge system and the more distance and time you put between you and all things Borg the happier you will be. And the more you will look back and wonder why you ever believed the things you believed. It's only scary the first few steps.
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Dear typer-ers, you're doing it wrong!
by Simon inthere are many things wrong with the world, many injustices and crimes committed.
what if we could stop one of them?
wouldn't it make the world a slightly better place?
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DJS
The italics did it on its own. I didn't format it that way. Copying and pasting from Word moved a lot of things around. I caught a lot of it but missed the italics. But thanks for pointing that out. I will watch auto-formatting from now on.