OK, please forgive me for sounding like a rube, but what the heck does "AGM" stand for?
CyrusThePersian
CyrusThePersian
JoinedPosts by CyrusThePersian
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10
5go's AGM summary and review
by 5go ini am writing this from memory i didn't ake notes so forgive me if it is out of order.. sumary.
it started off with the annoucement of a bible display (mueseum) being built that focuses on jehovah's name in the bible.
(i found it funny that few if any bible predate the 12th century because that's when the word jehovah was created bet that get's left out) the speaker went into the work done searching for various and the miracles donations and loans that happened to bring this about.
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Discussion w/ Wife: I Welcome Your Suggestions
by breakfast of champions inso these last few wts have definitely eroded my wife's faith in the org.
she is definitely seeing the bs, and i even overheard her talking openly about it to a family member.
good for her!.
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CyrusThePersian
Along with what everyone else said, you could also point out that evidence indicates that first century Christians didn't all participate in evangelizing or preaching work, only certain ones did.
Ephesians 4:11 says that Christ only gave "some" as evangelizers, not all. Also in 1st Timothy 3 the qualifications for elder and deacon (ministerial servant) are outlined, but if you read them over carefully you will not see any requirement whatsoever for doing any preaching work. (The notion that elders and ministerial servants must get at least 10 hours of preaching in a month is arbitrary and unscriptural.)
Similarly, in Titus chapter 2 insructions are given on how old men, old women, young women, young men and slaves ought to behave and the things they should do in the congregation, but NOWHERE in all these exhortations is there any mention of engaging in preaching work!
So there is nothing in the scripture that supports the idea that everyone in the congregation engaging in proselytizing activity would be a hallmark of true Christianity.
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who is greg stafford? under whose authority does.he.work?
by friendaroonie ini was jjzt watchkng his.debate with.dr.james.white.
as dr.white noted he.gives.answers you wkll not.hear frlm jws.at hour.door.
this is.be ause jws.as re.told the opposite.of.wbat stafford.says.on.many points.
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CyrusThePersian
Hi AuntConnie
I don't even pretend to understand that "overlapping generation", "new light on the Rapture", "annointed in charge of the Sheep now, but Jesus has not authorized them until his Second Coming" garbage. I'll leave that to others to debate!
I haven't read Ehrman's latest book, I believe it covers the topic of the historicity of Jesus as a person (something that Ehrman believes is true). I understand that it's only available in ebook form.
As far as Metzger and Wallace are concerned you have to remember that both men are/were believers so their opinions about the veracity of the scripture is necessarily colored by their religious beliefs. (BTW Daniel Wallace didn't write "Misquoting Jesus", Ehrman did, although Wallace did write a scathing review of it.)
My own opinion (notice I said opinion) is that there is pretty good evidence that what we have today in the way of manuscripts is fairly close to what was available at the end of the third century. However, as slimboyfat pointed out above, the likelyhood that these texts accurately reflect what actually took place in the first century ranges from 'doubtful' to 'No way in hell', nor do we have any way of knowing how many changes were wrought in the first three centuries. One only has to examine the Synoptics vs. John or Acts vs. Paul vs. Deutero-Pauline to see that the contradictions between them render the narrative as a whole to be dubious.
As slimboyfat pointed out too, there are passages in the scripture that simply are highly unlikely to have happened like Matt 21:5. Another one that really gets me is John chapter 3 where Jesus uses the words 'born again' where in Greek the word 'again' (ανωθεν) has two meanings: 'again' or 'from above'. Nicodemus gets confused as to which meaning Jesus is implying. The problem being that only if Jesus and Nicodemus were speaking to each other in Greek would this have been a problem. It's highly unlikely that this would be the case, they would have spoken to each other in Aramaic, their native tongue.
CyrusThePersian
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A conversation between Jesus and an JW Elder
by suavojr inand behold, an elder stood up to put him to the test, saying, teacher, what shall i do to inherit eternal life?.
he said to him, what is written in the bible?
how do you read?.
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CyrusThePersian
Nice thoughts Suavojr, but unfortunately for many elders the conversation would go like this:
"Which of these three, do you think, proved to be the neighbor to the man who fell among the robbers?”
He said, "Why the JW of course. He was going door to door telling all the neighbors the Good News™ about Gawd killing all the wicked people like that Ex-JW apostate at Armageddon™!"
Sad but true
CyrusThePersian
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who is greg stafford? under whose authority does.he.work?
by friendaroonie ini was jjzt watchkng his.debate with.dr.james.white.
as dr.white noted he.gives.answers you wkll not.hear frlm jws.at hour.door.
this is.be ause jws.as re.told the opposite.of.wbat stafford.says.on.many points.
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CyrusThePersian
@ AuntConnie
At the risk of derailing the topic, Bart Ehrman never claimed to be writing anything new and in fact stated repeatedly in his works that what he wrote has been mainstream scholarship for decades. It's absolutely true that Ehrman borrowed heavily from Bruce Metzger and other liberal scholars but for the most part he gives credit where it's due.
I think Ehrman should be given at least a little credit for popularizing the dry, dusty world of New Testament scholarship and bringing it to the attention of the "too stupid" public.
CyrusThePersian
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Relative time for Jehovah and Armageddon
by trackregister99 ini think in this matter many times.
based in this, i think that the creative days not have the same duration.
for example, the 7th day can be 7000 (4 hrs celestial * 7) years long like and the rest of days, each 42000 years long (24 hrs celestial * 7).. .
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CyrusThePersian
2nd Peter 3:8 says that a thousand years with God is as a day and a day is as a thousand years. So which is it? Or is it all just nonsense?
I vote nonsense.
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Do you detect an underlying sadness ?
by Phizzy inwhenever i talk to jw's, and even in some of the jw official videos, i detect a definite vibe of sadness coming off these people.. i am very sensitive to "atmospheres" and to peoples emotional state, you wouldn't think so, because more often than not i do not react to what i detect, i just let people get on with it.. but i do get this feeling that they are sad, probably because very, very, very deep down they realise that it is all false, maybe ?.
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CyrusThePersian
I'm probably not as perceptive as you but I have noticed a perfunctory, going-through-the-motions air about Witnesses these days. I'm with you about their deep down feelings. Here it is 2013, only one year away from the 100th anniversary of 1914 and still no Armageddon. That's got to weigh heavily on the minds of witnesses-especially old-timers.
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w2013-07-15 fallacy temple clean
by trackregister99 ini read in the watchtower 2013-07-15 simplified page 11 paragraph 5 this:.
he cleansed the temple in jerusalem twice.
the first time was at the start of his ministry, and the second was at the end of his ministry.
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CyrusThePersian
I'm going to write a post about this in detail but I want to address this particular issue. This is a case of people trying to write a "fifth gospel" if you will. That is, they're trying to collate things reported on in the different gospels into one cohesive account, and it just doesn't work. It doesn't work because when you mash the gospels together the resulting "fifth gospel" disagrees with the originals.
This is a case in point. In the synoptic gospels, Jesus is depicted as cleansing the Temple at the end of his ministry. In fact, this is the event that leads to his execution. However, John has Jesus cleansing the Temple at the beginning of his ministry. The problem? NONE of the gospel accounts say that Jesus cleansed the Temple twice! The idea that Jesus did this twice can only be derived if you attempt to combine the accounts together into one, something the original writers never intended.
The far more likely scenario is that the author of the Gospel of John, wanting to incorporate the pericope of the Temple cleansing into his work, simply put the event in a different place in his narrative.
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An Open Letter to all Armageddon Believers
by CyrusThePersian indear misguided people,.
here we are in the midst of 2013, only one year from the 100th anniversary of 1914. since i have many family members who are still jehovah's witnesses, and who still believe that the end of the world is coming any minute now, i thought i would post a little list of events, a timetable if you will, of some end-time prophesies and how long ago they were.. around 2,600 years ago zephaniah promised: "near is the great day of the lord, near and coming very quickly; listen, the day of the lord!
around 1,980 years ago jesus promised,"...this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.
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CyrusThePersian
^^Wow! Someone who is even more batsh!t crazy than the Jehovah's Witnesses!^^
Also, he takes so long to say so little!
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An Open Letter to all Armageddon Believers
by CyrusThePersian indear misguided people,.
here we are in the midst of 2013, only one year from the 100th anniversary of 1914. since i have many family members who are still jehovah's witnesses, and who still believe that the end of the world is coming any minute now, i thought i would post a little list of events, a timetable if you will, of some end-time prophesies and how long ago they were.. around 2,600 years ago zephaniah promised: "near is the great day of the lord, near and coming very quickly; listen, the day of the lord!
around 1,980 years ago jesus promised,"...this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.
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CyrusThePersian
...I'm afraid I have some bad news for you, Farkel. Perhaps you'd better sit down...