Posts by Loris

20

questions from readers

by peacefulpete in

for the past few years the questions from readers in the wt have been pathetic rehashes of old material, or just stupid newbie quetions answered in the pe book.

i know that they must be getting thouands of well thought out questions from sincere readers, yet none of these questions make the column.

i know that this is not surprising to many here.

Loris

What it got him was visits from the local elders telling him to shut up or else, to never ever talk to anyone about what he had written

Me too. My letter was about the UN. Same result.

Loris

20

He died on a cross

by ClassAvenger in

do any of you ex-jehovah witnesses still believe that jesus died on a stake, or a cross?

Loris

The manner of his death is of less importance than why he died. But since you asked.

I believe that the evidence of the Bible shows that it was probably a cross.

*** Rbi8 John 20:25 ***
25 Consequently the other disciples would say to him: "We have seen the Lord!" But he said to them: "Unless I see in his hands the print of the nails and stick my finger into the print of the nails and stick my hand into his side, I will certainly not believe."

*** Rbi8 Matthew 27:37 ***
37 Also, they posted above his head the charge against him, in writing: "This is Jesus the King of the Jews."
If his hands were above his head, then the scripture would have read, "above his hands" as the place for the notice.
Loris

11

True identity of Babilon The Great.

by Mr Bean in

.

ok. now i'll tell you who are the sixth king of revelation and

Loris

Does this mean we don't get the answer? My life is on hold awaiting the answer . Oh My!

Loris

69

What if the Watchtower Changed .......

by IslandWoman in

jw
friends

if the watchtower changed it's blood doctrine to one where publishers could do what their conscience dictated without fear of reprisals from the brothers, if they also quit using the two witness rule and said all criminal accusations must be reported to the police, if they stopped shunning, if they said all df and da'd could associate with their friends and family, if they apologized to ray franz and all others who were hurt by their policies; would exjws respect their dogma and refrain from putting down their religious beliefs to their faces?.

this is an important question, more important than you know.

iw

Loris

Nice dream IW. If the shunning, blood and child abuse issues were dropped and went away the JW religion would be more mainstream. Just a little bit off doctrinally speaking from the rest.

That’s all well and good but I don’t see how that can work in practical terms. How do they make all these major changes and still remain intact? The lawsuits alone would bury them. The feeding frenzy that would occur at the slightest admittance of guilt or complicity would finish them financially.

They have a catch 22 situation. Admit error and pay through the nose financially – or stubbornly refuse to change and suffer the defection of the best and brightest and wither from stagnation. Either way I do not see the possibility of survival of the WTS. Just a matter of time.

Loris (waiting for the end (of WTS) in my lifetime)

27

What's The Worst Thing a "Friend" Could Ever Do To You?

by minimus in

jw
friends

everyone thinks they have a friend or even many friends.

have you ever come to know that your "friend" was really no friend after all?

what happened??

Loris

I had a friend once. I thought she was the "true" friend you hear about. You know, the one that sticks closer than a brother (or sister). We did everything together. Our kids were constant companions. We talked for hours on the phone. When her husband died while on a trip far from home I got on a plane (which terrifies me to no end) and I flew to Alabama in order to drive her and the kids back to Florida.

When I was Df’d without a fair and impartial hearing she stuck by me. We had to be discreet about being friends. We would just "happen" to go to the same beach for a picnic and such.

I wanted to get out of that congregation so I sold my home. (silly me I thought that the trouble was confined to one congregation) My friend said that she too wanted to get away from there. She borrowed $2,500 to help her move. She promised to pay me back a little at a time. I moved and she went to Tennessee to find her a house to rent. She came back, showed off some nice china she bought in Nashville and her son had a nice new pair of boots.

They did not move but I was told that since I was DF’d she could not speak to me again. I got reinstated, she remarried and twenty years later I was still waiting for her to remember the money I loaned her.

She did move to Georgia with the new husband. I located her about a year ago. She seemed to be happy to hear from me until I told her about the UN debacle and what I had come to understand about the child abuse issue. She informed me that she had discovered that she is "anointed". Me I'm thinking I know what manure pile she crawled out of. But I didn't say it. I'm her friend.

Well, my friend called the PO of my congregation to inform him of the errors of my way. He had already told me to keep my mouth shut about certain things. That was one of the last straws that led to me writing a DA letter.

That's my friend story. The worst thing a friend can do is steal from you or betray your confidence.

Loris

43

Why On Earth Did You Ever Become A Witness & What Made You Decide To Leave?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i've known for years that if i was visited at my home by jehovah's witnesses, i would have become a do not call.

i would have firmly but politely told the witnesses to never come back to my door and bother me again.

since i was raised "in the truth", i learned the religion from infancy.

Loris

It was Hell that got me in. I was recovering from a near fatal auto crash when the kindly elderly couple knocked at my door. They got me to seriously thinking about how I did not have a clear understanding of who God was and what my relationship was. The one thing that I knew from the little religious training I had received from my Grandmother was that there is no fire in Hell. When I learned that the JW's taught the same thing, I was impressed. I had not found another religion that taught that.

I began to have doubts whenever something in the magazine or on an assembly program would stress unwaivering obedience. I would get a sick, creepy feeling inside. Images of Jim Jones and David Koresh would flash through my mind. I would shake it off each time but the next time it would disturb me even more.

Then Dateline introduced me to Silentlambs which led me to learning about the UN scandal. I did some research and the scripture, "Get out of her my people" played in the background of my mind. I tried to reason with two elders about my findings. I saw it was going to be Hell getting out. I wrote a DA letter and did not look back.

Loris

26

Did you take down notes at the meetings?

by JH in

jw
friends

were you the type to always jot down every little detail the brothers said from the podium?.

i found it amusing when especially sisters were always writting notes in their pads when the brother was giving a talk in the front.. i wonder if it was because they found the topic interesting, or because they wanted to look as if they were learning something.. i was all ears, but never took down notes.

that's odd, coming from a person who is "visual".

Loris

I am saddened by all you lost souls who did not take notes.

Didn't Jesus say that the end would be like the days of Noah? Did you not take to heart the clear warning about all those people before the flood who "took no note" and the flood waters carried them all away.

I took lots of notes. I had to in order to stay focused. The mind would drift if I didn't. I rarely looked over them later. Their purpose didn't seem to be a memory aid because there was rarely anything worth remembering.

Loris

3

WTS Taught by Humpty Dumpty

by Loris in

the wts writing staff must be proud graduates of the humpty dumpty school of liberal revisionism, so called because mr. dumpty, who appears in the works of lewis carroll, teaches that outer reality should conform to (his) inner desires.

thus mr. dumpty's much-quoted remark: "when i use a word it means just what i choose it to mean neither more nor less.

and thus, for the liberal followers of mr. d., if something ugly was done by people who are currently in power and therefore gods representatives, and if that something was done yesterday or earlier: "just lie, sucker!

Loris

And glory does not mean what you think it should mean. Humpty Dumpty says that glory means "a nice knockdown argument"

The WTS says that all the kiddys are not deprived at all. There is no need for birthday presents when there are 364 days for the Dub parents to give gifts. The only thing is they sort of forget. The kiddys do not get one special day and no gifts all wrapped up on any of those un-birthday days. Glory indeed!

Loris

3

WTS Taught by Humpty Dumpty

by Loris in

the wts writing staff must be proud graduates of the humpty dumpty school of liberal revisionism, so called because mr. dumpty, who appears in the works of lewis carroll, teaches that outer reality should conform to (his) inner desires.

thus mr. dumpty's much-quoted remark: "when i use a word it means just what i choose it to mean neither more nor less.

and thus, for the liberal followers of mr. d., if something ugly was done by people who are currently in power and therefore gods representatives, and if that something was done yesterday or earlier: "just lie, sucker!

Loris

The WTS writing staff must be proud graduates of the Humpty Dumpty School of Liberal Revisionism, so called because Mr. Dumpty, who appears in the works of Lewis Carroll, teaches that outer reality should conform to (his) inner desires.

Thus Mr. Dumpty's much-quoted remark: "When I use a word it means just what I choose it to mean— neither more nor less."

And thus, for the liberal followers of Mr. D., if something ugly was done by people who are currently in power and therefore God’s representatives, and if that something was done yesterday or earlier: "Just lie, sucker!" I mean, what's the problem? The rank and file JW’s don't know what happened yesterday; they barely know what's happening today. Nobody will care.

And if something was taught as the absolute truth in the past, you invent a new phrase, "present truth." Then the reality of the teaching is no longer constant. It can shift with the whims of the GB to match the present needs of the Organization. As the sands of the hourglass of a prophesy run out, it is an easy thing to just add more sand; or create a brand new hourglass. Nobody will care.

Graduates of the Humpy Dumpty School of Liberal Revisionism can take a simple word like "generation" and make it mean any number of things.

"Webster's unabridged dictionary gives, in part, this definition of generation: 'The average lifetime of man, or the ordinary period of time at which one rank follows another, or father is succeeded by child; an age. A generation is usually taken to be about 33 years.' But the Bible is not so specific. It gives no number of years for a generation. And in Matthew 24:34, Mark 13:30 and Luke 21:32, the texts mentioning the generation the question refers to, we are not to take generation as meaning the average time for one generation to be succeeded by the next, as Webster's does in its 33-year approximation; but rather more like Webster's first-quoted definition, 'the average lifetime of man.' Three or even four generations may be living at the same time, their lives overlapping. (Ps. 78:4; 145:4) Before the Noachian flood the life span was hundreds of years. Down through the centuries since, it has varied, and even now is different in different countries. The Bible does speak of a man's days as being threescore and ten or fourscore years; but it assigns no specific number of years to a generation. - Ps. 90:10.. To try to say how many years before its end would be speculative. The texts merely set a limit that is sufficiently definite for all present practical purposes. Some persons living in A.D. 1914 when the series of foretold events began will also be living when the series ends with Armageddon. All the events will come within the span of a generation. There are hundreds of millions of persons living now that were living in 1914, and many millions of these persons could yet live a score or more years. Just when the lives of the majority of them will be cut short by Armageddon we cannot say." {WT Sep 1 1952 542-3}

"It is not reasonable to expect that present favorable conditions for preaching the good news will continue indefinitely. Besides, did not Jesus say that this generation will not pass away until all things are fulfilled? A generation, according to Psalm 90:10, is from seventy to eighty years. The generation that witnessed the end of the Gentile Times in 1914 does not have many more years left." {WT Dec 1 1968 715}[See also WT 01/10/78 p.31, 10/15/80, p. 31],

"From a purely human viewpoint, it could appear that these developments could hardly take place before the generation of 1914 disappears from the scene. But fulfillment of all the foretold events affecting the generation of 1914 does not depend on comparatively slow human action. Jehovah's prophetic word through Christ Jesus is: 'This generation (of 1914) will by no means pass away until all things occur.' (Luke 21:32) And Jehovah, who is the source of inspired and unfailing prophecy, will bring about the fulfillment of his Son's words in a relatively short time." {WT May 15 1984 6}

"The Year That Shocked The World .. Today, a small percentage of mankind can still recall the dramatic events of 1914. Will that elderly generation pass away before God saves the earth from ruin? Not according to Bible prophecy. 'When you see all these things,' Jesus PROMISED, 'know that he is near at the doors. Truly I say to you that THIS generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.' - Matthew 24:33, 34." {WT May 1 1992 3}

"Before the 1914 generation completely dies out, God's judgment must be executed." {WT May 1, 1985 (p. 4)}

"Rather than providing a rule for measuring time, the term 'generation' as used by Jesus refers principally to contemporary people of a certain historical period, with their identifying characteristics." {WT Nov 1 1995 17}

It is now the year 2003 and the word "generation" has seemingly disappeared from the vocabulary of JW’s altogether. Amazing. What once fueled frenzied door to door activity is gone. Just gone. Without a fair-thee-well, ta-ta or so-long.

Humpty Dumpty would be proud. "When I use a word it means just what I choose it to mean— neither more nor less." Through The Looking Glass by Lewis Carroll

Loris -of the Alice class

79

An epiphany, and prelude to other thoughts

by onacruse in

well, this is being a remarkable couple of weeks for me; one of those moments i'll remember for the rest of my life.

not to be melodramatic, but i think "epiphany" best describes what i'm experiencing.. a little history: i was born and raised a jw, bethel-bound at 8, baptized at 10. always a book-worm, liked to study math, science, and old wts publications (what a combo lol).

when i wasn't vacation pioneering (as it was called then), i spent my summers in my room, frequently reading for 16 hours at a stretch.

Loris

These are the senses in which I use these two terms, and which, perhaps, led to some seeming ambiguity in the way I've expressed myself on recent threads.

Onacruse

Ah yes semantics. S.I. Hayakawa is responsible in part for my love of language. He gave me an understanding that what we say very often is not what other people hear. If our semantic habits are outdated we may pre-judge, mis-evaluate, draw false inferences, jump to conclusions, mis-label and often fail to understand each other.

When we really desire to be understood often we must first do as you have done; define the meaning behind the relevant words we use. That way everyone in our intended audience is on the same page so to speak.

I like how your mind works. Please continue with your thoughts.

Loris