I think a better title to this thread would be "Can the Christian faith be rationally defended?" Personally, I think not.
B.
logansrun
JoinedPosts by logansrun
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Should the Christian faith be rationally defended?
by Narkissos inin the pretty miscellaneous "global flood" thread there were a couple of exchanges on the value of "apologetics" per se.
i think this subject is worth a thread of its own.
i will here recall some statements in the aforementioned thread:.
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how many people make a "comeback"
by stopthepain ini personally am ashamed of my so-called comeback.. hers the story.brainwashed from infancy on,got out at age 16-17-really started hating the religion.tried lots of drugs,sex ,selling drugs ,fighting,partying,gambling-soup to nuts.at a fragile and emotional point in my life,i looked back to the religion{for all those sappy and emotional reasons-ex-my life has no meaning,i dont like the way my life is}i had a short lived comeback,and fell into all the traps of believimg a cult again.thinking i needed "structure"in my life.my mom kept sayimg how i would find a nice sister,blah blah blah.... .
after 5-6 months of going to meetings i* stopped,i realized most of the people there{especial;ly young ones raised in the troof}were living lies,and acting very immature.that was 3 years ago.i havent been to the kh since and never plan on going back.. i guess im embarrssed about this and feel stupid about my "comeback".wondering if this is natural to have a comeback considering my circumstances,or if anyone has done this?.
please forgive me...........it will never happen again
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logansrun
It seems to me that developing a profound and pragmatic philosophy of life is essential if one wants to thrive after leaving the WT. Of course, it's true for every human being alive as well.
Short-range hedonism just doesn't work. Try a more enlightened long-range hedonism.
B.
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Why does God let bad things happen?
by FMZ inthis question seems to be getting thrown around in the earthquake threads, and is asked a lot... so, what is your opinion on why god allows bad things to happen?
also, did you stop believing in god because he allows it?.
i will throw my two-penneth in when i have a little more time tonight.
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logansrun
How can people so easily forget the extraordinary proclivity of humans to fool themselves, to trick themselves into believing something that will fondle their egos, their deepest hopes? We start off by saying, "Oh, it would be really nice if there was some way out of the death and suffering we see. I certainly would prefer that" -- and then up the ante by saying, "No, I must have some way out of death and suffering or else life just isn't bearable!" -- and then the illogical train of thought reaches it's zenith, "Therefore there must be some way out of this mess! If I can think of a "solution" to the problem of death and suffering there simply must be a "solution"!!"
Only the first thought in this three-part line of reasoning is rational. Sure, it would be nice if the brute facts of life somehow were not "the whole story" and that in the end "all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well." Unfortunately, there is simply no reason to believe this. None.
But, people don't like what appear to be the facts.
B.
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Its Really Not the Night, It's the Meaning...
by Country Girl inpeople celebrate their birthdays, if they fall on a wednesday, on a friday.
the night that everyone is off of work and has time to have a party, have fun, and celebrate.
they don't celebrate it on the exact date, but close enough that everyone knows.
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logansrun
Billygoat,
Okay. There was a reason why your friend celebrated her birthday on a day which was not her birthday. What is the reason why Christians celebrate Dec 25 as Jesus birth when it is certainly not the actual day of his birth? There is a certain logic to what your friend did. What's the logic of celebrating Jesus birth on the wrong day?
B.
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I'm afraid there are only 2 ways of being a true believin' Christian
by Zep inthe first way is to be completely ignorant.to ignore the fact that the bible is a hopelessly flawed man made document, and all other reasoned argument and evidence that points to the non existence of the christian god.
this strategy basically involves living inside mental cocoon and closing your eyes to any alternative views.
the best way to employ this tactic is to perform a whole lot repetitive and ritualistic action; a whole lot of head bowing and praying etc... etc....you know the drill!.
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logansrun
In other words, you either believe in the verbal inspiration of the Bible or you do not.
B.
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I'm afraid there are only 2 ways of being a true believin' Christian
by Zep inthe first way is to be completely ignorant.to ignore the fact that the bible is a hopelessly flawed man made document, and all other reasoned argument and evidence that points to the non existence of the christian god.
this strategy basically involves living inside mental cocoon and closing your eyes to any alternative views.
the best way to employ this tactic is to perform a whole lot repetitive and ritualistic action; a whole lot of head bowing and praying etc... etc....you know the drill!.
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logansrun
Actually, Zep's argument isn't necessarily a false dichotomy if he were to present it a little differently. It seems to me he is saying that one is either a literalistic, absolutistic Christian or one is not. It's more a matter of method than doctrine. So, Zep could present the following:
When it comes to Bible interpretation one is either (methodologically and strategically)
1) A literalist (the Bible is the literal, fully inspired, verbal -- not one word is wrong -- Word of God)
--or--
2) A non-literalist (the Bible isn't literally true in every respect and may contain errors, etc)
Notice there can be great variety among the views of people who would fall into either category, but they still do fall into either of these "umbrella" categories when it comes to their a priori assumptions about the Bible. It's similar to saying that, in the US, either one voted for George Bush or one did not. That's not a false dichotomy either.
Bradley
*******Now, some may take me to task in saying that no one views the Bible as literally true in every respect. What about Jesus parables, for instance? No fundamentalist I've met takes all of Jesus parables literally (although I did meet one who felt that way about the rich man and Lazarus!). But, when I say "literalist" I'm talking about someone who takes the Bible accounts of the flood, Jesus walking on the water and other miracle stories (and historical tales) as literal. A Bible "literalist" will take some passages of the Bible non-literally (ie, Jesus parables) since the context obviously shows that it is meant to be taken that way.
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Its Really Not the Night, It's the Meaning...
by Country Girl inpeople celebrate their birthdays, if they fall on a wednesday, on a friday.
the night that everyone is off of work and has time to have a party, have fun, and celebrate.
they don't celebrate it on the exact date, but close enough that everyone knows.
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logansrun
Billygoat,
Are you saying Jesus birthday is being celebrated on the same day as a pagan god? If that's your logic, then is it wrong for me to celebrate MY birthday on a day that happens to belong to someone else? I don't understand what you're saying.
If Jesus birth happened to simply coincide with the "birth" of a Pagan deity, then I wouldn't call it illogical to celebrate December 25th as his "birthday." But no scholar -- it's not just the JWs -- believe that Jesus was born on this day. More likely than not Jesus was born in the spring or fall.
Yes, it would be a rather illogical thing to consistantly celebrate my birthday, which is October 7th, on, say, February 23rd. Just doesn't make any sense.
But, old traditions don't die easily.
B.
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Why does God let bad things happen?
by FMZ inthis question seems to be getting thrown around in the earthquake threads, and is asked a lot... so, what is your opinion on why god allows bad things to happen?
also, did you stop believing in god because he allows it?.
i will throw my two-penneth in when i have a little more time tonight.
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logansrun
Armchair hypothesizing. Jaw-droppingly wishful thinking. Zero empiricism.
Sorry folks, the more and more I think of it the more and more I come to the conclusion that there is no God. Period. No "non-local" God of process, no "Universal Mind", no Cosmic Force, no The All. (ever notice how people feel the Need To Capitalize concepts like this, almost to make them appear "real" if you ask me.
Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence. God, life after death, the supernatural...those are pretty extraordinary claims. I haven't seen much evidence, let alone of the "extraordinary" variety.
B.
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Its Really Not the Night, It's the Meaning...
by Country Girl inpeople celebrate their birthdays, if they fall on a wednesday, on a friday.
the night that everyone is off of work and has time to have a party, have fun, and celebrate.
they don't celebrate it on the exact date, but close enough that everyone knows.
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logansrun
I didn't say it was "wrong." It's just illogical.
B.
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Its Really Not the Night, It's the Meaning...
by Country Girl inpeople celebrate their birthdays, if they fall on a wednesday, on a friday.
the night that everyone is off of work and has time to have a party, have fun, and celebrate.
they don't celebrate it on the exact date, but close enough that everyone knows.
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logansrun
...and so what if it's really a PAGAN god's birth we're celebrating! We'll just pretend it's Jesus' birth. Yeah, that's it.
B.