Loris,
Fascinating! The Greek philosophical notion of Logos was also one of an impersonal, divine order, was it not? I wonder if that is what the Johanine author was referring to.
Bradley
logansrun
JoinedPosts by logansrun
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33
John 1:1 for nonbelievers.....
by logansrun ini've often felt that the most objective person in a situation is the one who has no stake in the outcome.
this holds true to religious issues as well.
we all know freddie franz translated john 1:1 as "the word was [a] god" and the rest of the christian world flew through the roof.
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The absurdity of petitionary prayer
by logansrun inof all the neurotic and irrational ideas religion has come up with, the notion that god(s) intervenes in the flow of natural events due to a human's prayer has got to be one of the craziest.
let us illustrate the lunacy of the situation.
you have, in your possession, a serum that will either cure the child or at least lessen his pain.
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logansrun
Of all the neurotic and irrational ideas religion has come up with, the notion that God(s) intervenes in the flow of natural events due to a human's prayer has got to be one of the craziest. Why do I say this?
Let us illustrate the lunacy of the situation. You are a doctor who is in a room with a sick child -- crying, near death. You have, in your possession, a serum that will either cure the child or at least lessen his pain. If you and the child were alone in the room what would you do? Give the child the serum, of course.
Ah, but let's say that you decide to wait until there are more people in the room to do this. The child's parents show up and start pleading with you to help their little one. "No," you say, "I will only intervene when more people show up and ask me to help." Some others show up -- relatives, nurses, friends, even strangers. "I will not intervene until you start a petition in the neighborhood for me to help" you say. After hundreds of men and women sign the petition you give the child the serum. Have you done anything great or noble? Should the parents thank you? I will leave you to decide.
Obviously the above scenario closely resembles the situation God is in if you believe in that sort of thing. Millions, no, billions of believers pray to God asking Him for help, whether great or small. As a Witness I did this countless times, often praying for people in other countries I had no knowledge of. When Elisabeth Smart was missing her parents asked for total strangers to pray for her safety and return. In fact, they attributed her amazing recovery to petitionary prayer.
Why does God play these games? If He knows all and sees all why does he need humans to ask Him to do the right thing? Is that not like the example I just gave of the doctor and the child? People often pray in large numbers for the same thing -- the aforementioned situation with Smart, prayer for nations to stop persecuting Christians, prayer for certain liberal Supreme Court Justices to retire -- and it is thought that such masses of people praying have greater effect, that God is somehow tallying up the quantity and quality of prayers before he intervenes. (Like it or not, that IS what believers think, even though they won't say it so matter-of-factly) Confusing? Try sadistic.
Is this not anthropomorphism? No, I cannot even conclude that. What human being would be so callous as to "answer" prayers in such a way. What loving father would ever wait till he was asked to do the right thing -- and then only doing so in such a manner as to cause so much confusion?
There was an experience in an Awake magazine a few years ago of a man, an elder, who had prayed for her daughters safety while she was traveling across the country. She -- pregnant with child at the time -- was brutally murdered along with her child. The father said that he could not understand why Jehovah didn't protect her. But then he reasoned that Jehovah did in fact protect her -- that is, spiritually protect her. What specious reasoning -- sad even. Just what does that mean that God protected her spiritually? Why not simply conclude that God just didn't come through. Or, more likely still, that He just doesn't exist.
When you think about it, I mean really think about it, you will see that petitionary prayer is one of the greatest delusions known to man.
Bradley
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Do Circuit Overseers Give Up Their Lives For Jehovah?
by minimus ini've heard for years how we should really appreciate the circuit overseers and their wives for all that they give up to enter the circuit work... do you think that's true?
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logansrun
They have to pay for some food,[breakfasts fruit etc] , their clothing, their medical expenses, telephone, and computer. The fact is all their needs and expenses are not cared for.
This is ridiculous. Many a times as an MS I read resolutions to the congregations to pay for the CO's expeses. I've seen what they record as their expenses (I was also accounts servant) and it listed such things as cereal, the phone bill, gas and other minor things. They also get plenty of golden handshakes as well. My brother in law's grandfather was a CO and I know for a fact that he would get many "perks" from the friends. He was an avid golfer (his name was Sam Reno, btw) and he once told my brother in law that he never paid for his golf outings.
In short, although you are correct that the CO life is not some sort of panacea, you are quite wrong in stating that it is economically difficult for the majority.
Bradley
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Christianity promotes a helpless victim mentality...
by logansrun ini'm going to be a man of few words here.
christianity, in it's truest, fundamentalist form, promotes an unhealthy and non-productive victim mentality.
the christian feels helpless on his own -- condemned by sin and absolutely unworthy.
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logansrun
Little Toe you're full of shit. But I like you nonetheless.
Bradley
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Awe ... shame
by Simon inhttp://www.msnbc.com/news/956496.asp?0cv=cb10
ex-priest geoghan killed in prison
boston, aug. 23 john geoghan, the ex-priest at the center of the boston archdioceses sex abuse scandal, was killed saturday in prison, officials told nbc affiliate wdhd tv
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logansrun
My God he could have used a face-lift.
B
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Do Circuit Overseers Give Up Their Lives For Jehovah?
by minimus ini've heard for years how we should really appreciate the circuit overseers and their wives for all that they give up to enter the circuit work... do you think that's true?
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logansrun
Yesidid,
I never said my grandfather was an authority on the life of a CO. In fact, I mentioned that what he said is doubtless an exaggeration. All the same, he has spent nearly fifty years as a dub and therefore can make some judgement call as to what he sees externally.
As for my comment, why yes I do believe that COs are compensated financially for their work. As has been mentioned all their needs and expenses are cared for and, except for the matter of possible retirment, they do not have to worry about money at all. That's not to say they are in any way wealthy, but they sometimes do have nicer things than many a R&F.
Bradley
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Chimps - Smarter than the average JW !
by Amazing inhi everyone: here are some fascinating facts about one of our 'cousins' on the evolutionary scale.
this is fairly short and fun to read.
we are closer to evolution than many realize!!!
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logansrun
I love chimps. Have you ever seen the Lincoln Park Zoo great ape house, Jim? It was fantastic...was, because it's closed till they rebuild a new one....will be open next year.
Bradley
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Now I've seen everything....
by logansrun ini was at the health food store the other day and found conspicously on the bottom shelf -- organic tampons.
no, i am not making this up.
what's next...organic condoms?
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logansrun
LOL Six. I knew about the sheepskin ones....they're great for someone who is in a committed relationship and just wants to prevent pregnancy. Organic and orgasmic -- gotta love it.
Bradley
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John 1:1 for nonbelievers.....
by logansrun ini've often felt that the most objective person in a situation is the one who has no stake in the outcome.
this holds true to religious issues as well.
we all know freddie franz translated john 1:1 as "the word was [a] god" and the rest of the christian world flew through the roof.
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logansrun
BTTT
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58
Do Circuit Overseers Give Up Their Lives For Jehovah?
by minimus ini've heard for years how we should really appreciate the circuit overseers and their wives for all that they give up to enter the circuit work... do you think that's true?
?
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logansrun
It's not all about the money, people. CO's are treated like Senators practically every congo they go to -- how much would some people pay to be treated like that? I'm not saying that power and prestige are their overt reasons for being in the work, but it certainly must be a covert, almost subconscious reason.
Besides the issue of retirement most COs and DOs are compensated financially for everything they do (in the developed world, at least). Let's just put it this way -- in some ways it is a sacrifice, in some ways they have it pretty darn easy. (My grandfather, himself an elder, often would say that their job is a "piece of cake" -- an exaggeration for sure) Certainly it is not the selfless course the WT would like to make it out to be.
Bradley