logansrun

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Posts by logansrun

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  17

  Another Reason People Invented "God" -- Absolution

  by AlmostAtheist in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  we've all hurt people at one time or another.

  some may have managed to keep it to the "made me feel bad" level, but others of us have hurt people severely.

  this has almost surely been true down through the ages.. sometimes the people we hurt can't be asked for forgiveness.

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  logansrun

  As can be seen from many of my posts, I am for all intents, an atheist. Nevertheless, whenever I hear psychological explanations why people "invented" the idea of God(s) I can't help but smirk at the notion that this somehow disproves the existence of the divine. (This is seen in AlmostAtheist's comment "There is no such being").

  An explanation is not a refutation. One can explain why humans have aesthetic values by the fact that they aid in survival (or, are spandrels -- nice by-products of evolution that were never intended), but this does fact does not refute those values, or diminish their importance.

  If I were a theist I could simply claim that, although there are strong psychological reasons for believeing in God, this situation is something which is part of the divine construction of reality; part of the make-up of human beings which God foresaw and approved.

  Even if God does not exist, I am wary of simple explanations as to why people "invented" God. Surely there were/are psychological and emotional reasons, but there are also intellectual ones -- God is a great explanation as to why the flowers grow, why humans can think, why the stars move in such precision, indeed, the whole of the universe is accounted for in all it's seeming design through the work of the great Designer.

  Oh, Lord, now I'm sounding like the Watchtower.

  B.
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  19

  Were any of you "Self righteous" in the begining?

  by new boy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i know i was!------------ in my "20s" there was no one more "self righteous" then me.

  i thought everyone should be pioneering since we were so close to 1975!.

  i actully had a card make up to hand to people saying "have sword will travel"------on the bottom it said a a a {available after armageddon} because i tought anyone who got married before then was a slacker.. what a "jerk" i was!!!.

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  logansrun

  I changed my name from Self-righteous to logansrun years ago.

  B.
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  24

  Does anyone know a good exit counselor in the Chicago area?

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  does anyone have any experience using exit counselors?

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  logansrun

  CYP,

  I am an ex-Witness for three years now. I simply wish to be as objective as possible in dealing with them -- something which is generally missing on this site. ("Groupthink" seems to pervade here as it does in the organization, but that is another matter entirely)

  As for the BRCI bit...Well, like I said there was a female I talked to once who did make this claim about resurrection. It wasn't Marilyn or anyone from the Chicago area. I have no idea what her name was, but...oh well!

  B.
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  24

  Does anyone know a good exit counselor in the Chicago area?

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  does anyone have any experience using exit counselors?

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  logansrun

  Check your premises

  I love your handle, btw. I often like to say that I don't have much of a problem with the Witnesses logic as I do their premises.

  Anyway...it sounds like you have a pretty good handle of what the JWs are all about. I simply hesitate to use the word "cult" because it carries so much baggage with it and doesn't seem at all helpful in talking rationally about the group. To me, the only thing that truly makes the JWs cult-like is their strict information control, ie: can't talk to former members, read other religious viewpoints or anything critical of the JWs. That's about the only thing that seperates them from mainstream fundamentalist Christian groups...who also use fear, guilt and shame to indoctrinate their members.

  I very highly doubt that a Witness would be affected by an exit-counselor to leaving the group, unless they already were HIGHLY doubting Witnesses. In fact, such an encounter would likely have the opposite effect -- making them stronger in their faith.

  Questioning the organization seems like an issue you simply cannot *force* with JWs. They have to in some way be *ready* for it. And, unfortunately, most will never leave -- that is the unfortunate reality for people w/loved ones in the org.

  B.
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  24

  Does anyone know a good exit counselor in the Chicago area?

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  does anyone have any experience using exit counselors?

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  logansrun

  A couple points to ponder:

  Are JWs really a "cult"? Is the Catholic Church a "cult"? Is the United States Army a "cult"? Or do we just not like our family members religious choices? (Consider these rhetorical questions)

  Also, remember that being a counselor is one thing, being a good, unbiased and logical counselor is another. Unfortunately, psychology is a field which seems to attract a lot of nutty people, some of whom become professional counselors.

  Can you tell I'm skeptical?

  B.
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  92

  Will reading CoC automatically make me want to leave WTS?

  by ljwtiamb in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  since i am still active (somewhat).

  i have not read the book and you know what the org says about it.

  will crisis of conscience surely send me into a tailspin?

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  logansrun

  Basically, the substance of CoC can be summed up (in my lowly opinion) in two sentences:

  1) There is no reason to believe that 607BCE is the date for Jerusalem's first destruction.

  2) The GB vote (or at least used to vote) on matters of great importance that affect millions of lives and cannot agree amongst themselves.

  That's not a lot of information, but it is rather damning. With a house of cards it is only necessary to remove one for the whole thing to come tumbling down.

  B.
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  21

  Silent Lambs campaign

  by kittyeatzjdubs in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hey!

  is anyone participating in the silent lambs campaign where they're sticking the flyers in the doors of kingdom halls?

  i'm seriously thinking about it, but i'm going for the gusto!

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  logansrun

  they clearly have hearts of stone. F them. Those with the right heart condition will take notice.

  Wow. Besides the [edited] reference the above sounds like it's right out of the pages of the Watchtower. Give me a break. If you think that people freely make choices based on their "heart condition" you are really fooling yourself. It's much more complicated than that.

  B.
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  35

  Has the quality of jws gone down?

  by badboy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  any takers?

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  logansrun

  Crumpet,

  Smiley-winkie wink () was to put a tongue-in-cheek flavor to my comments. Shania, you do realize that I was joking with you as much as I was chastising you, right?

  You mean a cute little crumpet such as yourself (with a beautiful smile) could be a dominatrix? Nah, I don't believe that at all.

  Bradley
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  35

  Has the quality of jws gone down?

  by badboy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  any takers?

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  logansrun

  Interesting:

  The intelegents is way down as well as the morals------I

  Really!

  know a hall where they appointed a man that committed adultry and left his family and took of with the best friends wife and came back and 5 years-laterpoof he is good enough to be an elder (he allowed a book study in his home) he is on the platform teaching morals I don't think holy spirit is working over here.........

  "Over here"? So, you're still a JW at that congregation.

  needless to say many left that hall feeling this is a slap in the face to his former family.............I drove by during a Sunday meeting, what once had 200 ppl attending has only 50ppl attending with a handful of cars in the lot...........all the smart ones are moving on and dumb and dumber ones stay............they better start encouraging college soon.............

  See above comment.
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  21

  Silent Lambs campaign

  by kittyeatzjdubs in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hey!

  is anyone participating in the silent lambs campaign where they're sticking the flyers in the doors of kingdom halls?

  i'm seriously thinking about it, but i'm going for the gusto!

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  logansrun

  Just out of curiosity, do you really believe that this would accomplish any good? Or will it just fan the flames of the Witnesses "persecution-complex"?

  Methinks the latter, btw.

  Fight fire with water.

  Bradley