i still find it strange that believers cannot get it in to their heads that atheism is not a belief, but theism is.
there cannot possibly be proof "for" the atheistic position as it is simply a position that says i see no proof for a god.. if someone says there are pink unicorns with purple spots and i say i have never seen any proof of their existence, i cannot offer proof of my "position", the onus is 100% upon the spotted unicorn guy to prove their existence to me.
simple.. where the frustration enters in for us non-unicornists is when the unicornists expect us to listen to inane arguments , non facts and plain nonsesnse and then go along with their delusion.
Tornapart, do you think you were deluded as a JW? Would you call that mental illness now?
Kate, it was a personal statement, I was confident I wasn't deluded as a JW, but evidence suggests I probably was. As an exJW I find I can't bring myself to certainty on many subjects. I'm learning to live with uncertainty and inconsistency...
i've spent the last few years examining my core beliefs to test what still stands.
i've let go of an inviolate bible, demoted jesus to a failed prophet, and god as unable to act against injustice.
our universe made itself.
To borrow a JW phrase: 'we're all imperfect'
I don't mean we shouldn't always strive to do better, but we can always find problems with human efforts if we are looking for it.
i enjoy the odd thread about evoloution vs creation, etc but lately it seems that a large percentage of threads here devolve into fighting between atheists and theists and distract from what most of us here see eye to eye on, the wt and related things.
i wish things could be more civil here and fr people to realize that people will never see eye to eye on the topic.
it gets so tiring to see the contstant bickring and fighting on those threads.. they seem to go on page after page but very little of substance is discussed seeing as the existence or non existence of a god can be proven by anyone.
I am not your enemy!
i still find it strange that believers cannot get it in to their heads that atheism is not a belief, but theism is.
there cannot possibly be proof "for" the atheistic position as it is simply a position that says i see no proof for a god.. if someone says there are pink unicorns with purple spots and i say i have never seen any proof of their existence, i cannot offer proof of my "position", the onus is 100% upon the spotted unicorn guy to prove their existence to me.
simple.. where the frustration enters in for us non-unicornists is when the unicornists expect us to listen to inane arguments , non facts and plain nonsesnse and then go along with their delusion.
What about:
'I am willing to accept that I may be deluded, but I don't think I am'
if you could teach me one thing to convince me not to believe what would it be?
for instance what has the wt taught about evolution/science or mans existence that is wrong and could possibly change skmeones mind?
and the more important question, why is it a creator couldnt allow for species to evolve?
I like that you knew this was going to be a giant thread. There must be a prophet inside of you DS.
To answer your question see John 12:32
i've spent the last few years examining my core beliefs to test what still stands.
i've let go of an inviolate bible, demoted jesus to a failed prophet, and god as unable to act against injustice.
our universe made itself.
i've spent the last few years examining my core beliefs to test what still stands.
i've let go of an inviolate bible, demoted jesus to a failed prophet, and god as unable to act against injustice.
our universe made itself.
Q, Christianity very much popularised the rule in the West. Prior to Christianity there was very little charity in the Roman empire, if such good things appear naturally until poisoned by religion this would not be the case. It's not a guarantee that secular society would be as advanced as it is without certain religious influences.
i've spent the last few years examining my core beliefs to test what still stands.
i've let go of an inviolate bible, demoted jesus to a failed prophet, and god as unable to act against injustice.
our universe made itself.
I'm not sure why a long list of religious people who advocated the Golden rule helps your case?
As Mr Hart goes on to say:
"Surely it cannot be the case that, if only purged of the toxin of faith, these things would be even better than they are; were it not for faith, it seems fairly obvious, most of them would have no existence at all. And since none of these things would seem to fall outside the general category of “everything,” it must be that Hitchens means (assuming he means anything at all) that they fall outside the more specific category of “religion.” This would, at any rate, be in keeping with one of the rhetorical strategies especially favored in New Atheist circles: one labels anything one dislikes—even if it is found in a purely secular setting—“religion” (thus, for example, all the twentieth-century totalitarianisms are “political religions” for which secularists need take no responsibility), while simultaneously claiming that everything good, in the arts, morality, or any other sphere—even if it emerges within an entirely religious setting—has only an accidental association with religious belief and is really, in fact, common human property (so, for example, the impulse toward charity will doubtless spring up wherever an “enlightened” society takes root). By the same token, every injustice that seems to follow from a secularist principle is obviously an abuse of that principle, while any evil that comes wrapped in a cassock is unquestionably an undiluted expression of religion’s very essence.
i've spent the last few years examining my core beliefs to test what still stands.
i've let go of an inviolate bible, demoted jesus to a failed prophet, and god as unable to act against injustice.
our universe made itself.
Not appropriated by religion, invented by it.
i've spent the last few years examining my core beliefs to test what still stands.
i've let go of an inviolate bible, demoted jesus to a failed prophet, and god as unable to act against injustice.
our universe made itself.
'how religion poisons everything' is a rather ridiculous title for a book. As David Bentley Hart says:
"one does still have to wonder how he expects any reflective reader to interpret such a phrase. Does he really mean precisely everything? Would that apply, then—confining ourselves just to things Christian—to ancient and medieval hospitals, leper asylums, orphanages, almshouses, and hostels? To the golden rule, “Love thine enemies,” “Judge not
lest ye be judged,” prophetic admonitions against oppressing the poor, and commands to feed and clothe and comfort those in need? To the music of Palestrina and Bach, Michelangelo’s Pietà, “ah! bright wings,” San Marco’s mosaics, the Bible of Amiens, and all that gorgeous blue stained glass at Chartres? To the abolitionist movement, the civil rights movement, and contemporary efforts to liberate Sudanese slaves? And so on and so on?"
