On my first birthday my brother-in-law beat up a homeless man... made me wonder if the Society were right all along...
Nah, hope you have a great day! :)
Posts by Laika
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24My First Birthday!!!!!
by Gojira_101 inmy birthday isn't until the end of july but yesterday i got my first birthday gift in the mail.
my best friend (stubborn disbeliever) sent me my gift early.
i know what it is, but seeing it all wrapped up and knowing on my birthday i can open it...it really struck a cord with me.
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69
Atheism and the delusion of meaning
by Laika inin the movie annie hall, written by woody allen, as a young boy, alvy's mother, takes him to see a doctor as he appears to be dealing with some kind of depression.
when the doctor asks alvy what's up, alvy explains that he just found out the universe is expanding, everything will spread out and go cold and die, therefore nothing he does matters, so he is not going to do anything anymore.
most people might see this as a joke, but i think woody is trying to make a serious point.. the point here is about meaning.
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Laika
metatron,
On reflection I have to agree I apparently didn't express my OP elegantly or tactfully!
ctrwtf,
I think I've already explained that.
rebel8,
Well if I allow him to kill me it doesn't really matter in the big picture does it? Isn't the only reason it matters to us because we evolved a fear of death and not because of any actual logic?
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69
Atheism and the delusion of meaning
by Laika inin the movie annie hall, written by woody allen, as a young boy, alvy's mother, takes him to see a doctor as he appears to be dealing with some kind of depression.
when the doctor asks alvy what's up, alvy explains that he just found out the universe is expanding, everything will spread out and go cold and die, therefore nothing he does matters, so he is not going to do anything anymore.
most people might see this as a joke, but i think woody is trying to make a serious point.. the point here is about meaning.
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Laika
Damn, I wish I hadn't made the dog turd comment :( as many of you seem to think I was saying I believe atheists are not more valuable than dog turds, but I don't believe this, absolutely the opposite! I just meant that I don't see how an atheist can assign value to any one thing or person that puts them above anything/anyone else, and I used an extreme, and apparently poor, example to illustrate this.
This is just pointing out what I see as an inconsistency in most atheists beliefs, it doesn't mean I think atheists are evil, valueless, or responsible for most of the mass murders or evil in the world!
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69
Atheism and the delusion of meaning
by Laika inin the movie annie hall, written by woody allen, as a young boy, alvy's mother, takes him to see a doctor as he appears to be dealing with some kind of depression.
when the doctor asks alvy what's up, alvy explains that he just found out the universe is expanding, everything will spread out and go cold and die, therefore nothing he does matters, so he is not going to do anything anymore.
most people might see this as a joke, but i think woody is trying to make a serious point.. the point here is about meaning.
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Laika
Thanks all, lots of responses so I can't really give you all the time you deserve...
ADCMS,
Then you got the wrong impression. My argument is that most atheists do not live consistently with their beliefs, I know they assign meaning and value to their lives, but if they were being honest with what their worldview means then they wouldn't.
Fernando,
Have you ever read anything on the 'Christus Victor' view of the atonement.
OTWO,
In your philosophy how does it matter if I 'waste' my 'brief moment'? When you are dead and the universe no longer exists will it matter to you whether you 'wasted' your life or not? Will it matter to the Universe?
pseudo,
good post, I hope you have time to comment later as well. :)
Terry,
How is arguing there is a difference between problem and solution in a dying universe anything but delusion?
I mostly agree with your paragraphs 3-5 but then I'm not a fundamentalist, dualist or JW, so that is not surprising,
GoodGuyGreg,
If you agree with me how do you not see the problem? I don't mind if you or any other atheist/theist/whatever wants to assign their own meaning to life, but if someone is an atheist and argues that a theist is not 'living in reality' but then argues that they can find a meaning or purpose in their worldview, then I have news for them: They are, at the very least, not living in reality either!
cantleave,
If we create our own meaning and purpose, how are we not deluding ourselves or creating our own fake reality?
MrFreeze,
Nothing delusional about 'accepting the world for what it is' but if an atheist is not a nihilist he is not accepting his world is what it is, that's the delusion, and is delusion regardless of whether or not any theist is right or wrong about reality.
designs,
I'll read more on charge conservation, thanks. :) I had quite a good Saturday, but I do love hiking, hope your weekend is also going well!
Lisarose,
I am genuinely pleased you are pursuing your passions, seriously, good for you! But if atheists are right it really doesn't matter whether you leave the dying world a better place or not.
Captain obvious,
I don't think we're too different either. :)
This_suit_doesnt_fit,
Start by not referring to me in the third person, and then maybe not quoting me out of context please. ;)
Satanus,
Well, I know atheists don't all share the same opinions on everything... I'm not trying to claim Christians (or anyone else for that matter) are better than atheists.
DJS,
Don't look now, but you apparently responded to a post not worth responding to! ;)
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69
Atheism and the delusion of meaning
by Laika inin the movie annie hall, written by woody allen, as a young boy, alvy's mother, takes him to see a doctor as he appears to be dealing with some kind of depression.
when the doctor asks alvy what's up, alvy explains that he just found out the universe is expanding, everything will spread out and go cold and die, therefore nothing he does matters, so he is not going to do anything anymore.
most people might see this as a joke, but i think woody is trying to make a serious point.. the point here is about meaning.
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Laika
Metatron
I agree with your post.
ADCMS,
I never said that atheists don't assign value to other people! You are attacking a strawman.
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How Do you Solve A Problem Like Maria (or more importantly 1914)
by wizzstick inso how will they solve it?.
having researched the whole 607bce thing, it's clear that it's utter nonsense.
for example, the house of egibi transaction records closes the door on any questions about the reign of kings of this time.
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Laika
I'd argue it's not really a problem. Not that many people have left from finding out Jerusalem didn't fall in 607, most JWs aren't even aware there's a controversy. They may as well leave it alone.
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69
Atheism and the delusion of meaning
by Laika inin the movie annie hall, written by woody allen, as a young boy, alvy's mother, takes him to see a doctor as he appears to be dealing with some kind of depression.
when the doctor asks alvy what's up, alvy explains that he just found out the universe is expanding, everything will spread out and go cold and die, therefore nothing he does matters, so he is not going to do anything anymore.
most people might see this as a joke, but i think woody is trying to make a serious point.. the point here is about meaning.
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Laika
And I will look forward to reading your explanation Cofty. ;)
Tiktaalik,
Not sure how it's more insulting than saying I'm too scared to face reality?
If there is no God I'm not more valuable than dog turd either. I think you may have misunderstood that point, I do think you are more valuable than dog turd! Perhaps you can explain how you assign value to things/people as an atheist?
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69
Atheism and the delusion of meaning
by Laika inin the movie annie hall, written by woody allen, as a young boy, alvy's mother, takes him to see a doctor as he appears to be dealing with some kind of depression.
when the doctor asks alvy what's up, alvy explains that he just found out the universe is expanding, everything will spread out and go cold and die, therefore nothing he does matters, so he is not going to do anything anymore.
most people might see this as a joke, but i think woody is trying to make a serious point.. the point here is about meaning.
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Laika
Hi punkofnice,
I can't provide a definitive answer. As a former Jehovah's Witness I now know that I am capable of great self-deception, this is something we should all be aware of. We all have the ability to create an alternate reality, I recently read about something called conversion disorder where people make themselves sick, you can even will yourself blind, subconciously. The bible even talks about self-deception (Jer 17:9)
So I don't think we can know anything for certain, we just have to hope we can find enough assurance that something is worth living our life for.
We as humans intrinsically stive for meaning, so for us to be the product of a meaningless universe is inconsistent. The Christian philosopher Francis Schaeffer argued that this would be an evolutionary failure, like fish in a water world with no free gases evolving lungs, it would be inconsistent with their universe. So I think our strive for meaning points to something.
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69
Atheism and the delusion of meaning
by Laika inin the movie annie hall, written by woody allen, as a young boy, alvy's mother, takes him to see a doctor as he appears to be dealing with some kind of depression.
when the doctor asks alvy what's up, alvy explains that he just found out the universe is expanding, everything will spread out and go cold and die, therefore nothing he does matters, so he is not going to do anything anymore.
most people might see this as a joke, but i think woody is trying to make a serious point.. the point here is about meaning.
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Laika
In the movie Annie Hall, written by Woody Allen, as a young boy, Alvy's mother, takes him to see a doctor as he appears to be dealing with some kind of depression. When the doctor asks Alvy what's up, Alvy explains that he just found out the universe is expanding, everything will spread out and go cold and die, therefore nothing he does matters, so he is not going to do anything anymore. Most people might see this as a joke, but I think Woody is trying to make a serious point.
The point here is about meaning. Imagine the universe did come out of nothingness, by the big bang. Next comes the universe, that is now expanding and will eventually die, and say the life of the entire universe then is 30 billion years, that might seem like a long time, but placed between the eternity past and the eternity future, then the 30 billion year life of the universe is just a single sentence, well, no, actually like a single word, no actually like a single letter, actually even smaller than a full stop in an entire library, but even that is an exaggeration, maybe the greatest exaggeration ever! So, then, to find meaning in a life of an individual of 80 years, that is infinity insignificant. If we lived the life of Gandhi a million times over, or an extreme Hitler where we gassed every man, woman and child alive, any of those actions would be totally meaningless in the big picture of all that is.
But now the atheists have to start their self-deception. They try to give the impersonal meaningless universe meaning. Just listen to them. In place of God, love, purpose they have these existential concepts of the survival of the herd, the advancement of mankind, the enjoyment of the beauty of nature etc...
So what's wrong with this? Well it's dishonest. It provides them with sanity and with that they can get up in the morning, get dressed, kiss their wives and children, go off to work and pretend it is real, but it isn't. There's no such thing as beauty or love, it's all relativity and even that is meaningless. The universe doesn't care if you succeed or fail, if you hate or love or whether or not you survive. It doesn't care if the herd survives or goes extinct. Nothing out of nothing. Keep going in this direction, enter that dark labyrinth and you will drown in the absurdity.
So to be an atheist then, you must be a nihilist. Anything else is a delusion, as great as the delusions of the Jehovah's Witnesses. In a self created, impersonal universe there cannot be any meaning. You are just a series of random events, you are no more valuable than a dog turd. Just as King Solomon said it is all in vain, totally meaningless.
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Who has had their District Convention seats stolen by other Witnesses?
by ÁrbolesdeArabia inover the years i have had to deal with this problem personally and as a attendant covering my section at various convention centers.
i had people who were suppose to be decent jehovah witnesses pick up all the books, bags and coolers belonging to brothers and sisters who arrived at the appropriate time and picked them up and dumped them all at the end of the seating row.
so here is what goes down, the sister runs up to me panicking and saying "dear brother, i had all those seats reserved for my family and now look!
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Laika
Not quite the same, but there was one elder who used to reserve the same seats at the Convention every year, it was on the front row center of the tiered seating at the back of the site, they were the best seats as you get no restrictions on legroom. He was head of the attendants so was usually first there and able to pick his seats, but occassionally some of us on the car park team would get there before him and take the seats to annoy him. He would then show a righteous rage, complaining that we had saved seats for people not in our house or car as per Watchtower guidelines, one year he even complained to the chairman about it. Yet every time his kids saved seats for their mates to sit with them as well and he knew it and never stopped them!
He eventually solved the problem by banning anyone from entering the Convention site until he'd completed his 'health and safety checks'.